standard steal vs. limp steal

peteski · Apr 10,2005, 05:57 AM

What do you consider when deciding whether to steal with a pre-flop raise or to try the limp-steal? Is it all based on what type of players are in the blinds? Do your cards have anything to do with it? If so, what kinds of hands are better suited for a limp-steal and what kinds of hands are better suited for a standard pre-flop steal? Do you only limp-steal from late position? Finally, what situations or hands (if any) will make you fold if it is checked to you in late postion?

Dave Scharf · Apr 15,2005, 06:18 PM

Whew… you like to pack a lot of questions into a small space. In this case, whole books could be written in response.

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What do you consider when deciding whether to steal with a pre-flop raise or to try the limp-steal? Is it all based on what type of players are in the blinds?

Mostly yes. There are lots of players, particularly in small tournaments, that are VERY reliable. Check if they miss the flop, bet if they hit it. With a couple of these jockeys in the blinds I like the limp steal. The other consideration is “varying your play.” Occasionally I “limp steal” with A-A etc, although not usually.

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Do your cards have anything to do with it?

With the limp steal, no. If I deal it is a good spot to deploy the limp steal, I will usually do so with any two cards. With a straight steal, yes. I have various “steal packages” that I put into play depending upon how I feel about my table image and stacks size. This helps to randomize steal attempts. Although, sometimes the “steal package” that is in force is “any two” which randomizes to 100%.

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If so, what kinds of hands are better suited for a limp-steal and what kinds of hands are better suited for a standard pre-flop steal?

Limp steal, any two. Straight steal, hands that do not suck “that bad” when you are called… suited connectors, one and two gappers, pocket pairs, and suited aces look pretty good to me. Random big cards are OK too.

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Do you only limp-steal from late position?

Yes. A limp steal is effective if it’s cheap. From an earlier position there is generally too great a chance to find yourself paying too much for a marginal hand out of position.

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Finally, what situations or hands (if any) will make you fold if it is checked to you in late postion?

Lots. If I think the blinds are “steal proof” or I have truly crappy cars and I do no think this is a good limp steal situation.

As an example (and blowing my own horn) Gus Hanson moved on the blinds EVERY time he was the button at the WSOP at my table. This was a mistake because I was on his left and I (1) understand and (2) have the balls to deploy counter strategies. Gus should have put away some of his aggression and he probably could have clobbered me. But, he kept the foot to the floor. If I am in late position and I think I have a “problem” in the blinds then I will steal A LOT less.

peteski · Apr 16,2005, 02:27 AM

Thanks Dave. Once again, very helpful.

Just a couple of quick followups:

Which is your preference if you think both strategies are generally pretty effective against the blinds, and you have a decent hand, let's say 65s?

And, what should Gus have done against you? So he shouldn't have tried to steal as often. Should he have given up on those steal situations altogether and waited for good hands or should he have just been somewhat more selective in the hands he would play in that situation, and not moved EVERY time he was on the button.

Dave Scharf · Apr 18,2005, 01:00 PM

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Which is your preference if you think both strategies are generally pretty effective against the blinds, and you have a decent hand, let's say 65s?

It will depend a lot on the texture of the game. Back to Mike Caro... do what they expect you to do. So, at my local casino, I limp steal A LOT more often than I do at the WSOP. Limping isn't that unusual. At the WSOP a limp will garner a lot more attention than a late positon raise.

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And, what should Gus have done against you?

It is a TERRIBLE feeling to have a loose aggressive player on your left. Especially one that you KNOW is capable of the re-steal. When I fimd myself in that situation I decide whether I want a war or not. Often, the best weapon against a loose aggressive player who is capable of folding is the application of even greater force. The shout goes up from the general: "Deploy the re-re-steal cannon." Gus could have taken a few from me be re-re-stealing.

If the chips are not deep enough or I do not have my "A" game or whatever, then you simply have to reign in the horses. Bad seat draw. Buckle up and hope to lower the boom with a big hand.

Buster · Apr 18,2005, 09:42 PM

Am I right in summarizing the difference between standard steal and limp-steal.

Standard steal - you are in late position (preferrably on the button), everyone folds ahead of you and you raise pre-flop in hopes of both blinds folding.

Limp steal - you are again in late position or on the button, everyone (or most everyone) folds ahead of you, and you limp in. Then post-flop, after everyone in front of you checks, you make a pot size (or larger) bet, again in hopes that both blinds fold.

Dave Scharf · Apr 19,2005, 08:08 AM

I would bet about half the pot in no-limit, but yes, that's right. Limp steal and basic steal also work in limit poker.