Tourney hands

ScoobyD · Jul 20,2005, 11:09 AM

This tourney has been bothering me, so I could use some feedback. Specifically 2 hands.

General info: 500FPP sat to Stars 500k. Top 9 get a seat. about 40ish left I think at this point. I'm around 15th to 20th in chips, in pretty good shape. I've taken down a couple pots in last orbit (once with 33 in BB on a ragged flop, another time raising with JJ and taking it down on turn).

The setup hand: AA UTG.

POKERSTARS GAME #2125701204: TOURNAMENT #10123739, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (100/200) - 2005/07/17 - 18:39:50 (ET)
Table '10123739 23' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (7232 in chips)
Seat 3: ScoobyD (11660 in chips)
Seat 4: deque (1795 in chips)
Seat 5: ELVIS28 (7940 in chips)
Seat 6: bparis (5385 in chips)
Seat 7: The Geek (12420 in chips)
Seat 8: Ellis_Island (10105 in chips)
Seat 9: Geritol49 (2495 in chips)
Mad_Deal: posts the ante 25
ScoobyD: posts the ante 25
deque: posts the ante 25
ELVIS28: posts the ante 25
bparis: posts the ante 25
The Geek: posts the ante 25
Ellis_Island: posts the ante 25
Geritol49: posts the ante 25
Geritol49: posts small blind 100
Mad_Deal: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScoobyD [Ad Ac]
ScoobyD: raises 600 to 800
deque: calls 800
ELVIS28: folds
bparis: folds
The Geek: calls 800
Ellis_Island: folds
Geritol49: folds
Mad_Deal: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 8d 6h]
ScoobyD: bets 2800
deque: folds
The Geek: folds
ScoobyD collected 2900 from pot
ScoobyD: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2900 | Rake 0
Board [5d 8d 6h]
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ScoobyD collected (2900)
Seat 4: deque folded on the Flop
Seat 5: ELVIS28 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: bparis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: The Geek folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Ellis_Island (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Geritol49 (small blind) folded before Flop

Next hand: The problem hand for me. Playing AKs in BB vs. limpers.

POKERSTARS GAME #2125709038: TOURNAMENT #10123739, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (100/200) - 2005/07/17 - 18:40:53 (ET)
Table '10123739 23' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (7007 in chips)
Seat 3: ScoobyD (13735 in chips)
Seat 4: deque (970 in chips)
Seat 5: ELVIS28 (7915 in chips)
Seat 6: bparis (5360 in chips)
Seat 7: The Geek (11595 in chips)
Seat 8: Ellis_Island (10080 in chips)
Seat 9: Geritol49 (2370 in chips)
Mad_Deal: posts the ante 25
ScoobyD: posts the ante 25
deque: posts the ante 25
ELVIS28: posts the ante 25
bparis: posts the ante 25
The Geek: posts the ante 25
Ellis_Island: posts the ante 25
Geritol49: posts the ante 25
Mad_Deal: posts small blind 100
ScoobyD: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScoobyD [Ah Kh]
deque: folds
ELVIS28: calls 200
bparis: folds
The Geek: folds
Ellis_Island: calls 200
Geritol49: folds
Mad_Deal: calls 100
ScoobyD: raises 1200 to 1400 - (I figure 3BB + 3BB for 3 limpers, is this raise too small, or comitting too much?)
ELVIS28: folds
Ellis_Island: calls 1200
Mad_Deal: folds
*** FLOP *** [9h Jd 6d]
ScoobyD: bets 2600 - (I take my stab at the pot here with a bit of a feeler bet around 2/3 of pot, but I get called)
Ellis_Island: calls 2600
*** TURN *** [9h Jd 6d] [8d] (what a shitty card, even if I WAS ahead on the flop, it's quite possible I'm drawing dead now)
ScoobyD: checks
Ellis_Island: bets 6055 and is all-in (the bet feels odd, I'm wondering if taking down the previous pot uncalled makes my table image seem a bit reckless, if he made his flush I'd expect him to try to milk me for some more chips, I realize this could be a move, but still can't call)
ScoobyD: folds
Ellis_Island collected 8600 from pot
Mad_Deal said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8600 | Rake 0
Board [9h Jd 6d 8d]
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ScoobyD (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 4: deque folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ELVIS28 folded before Flop
Seat 6: bparis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: The Geek folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Ellis_Island collected (8600)
Seat 9: Geritol49 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

As far as the PF raise: When I'm out of position should I be thinking raise x # of BB, or should I be thinking x % of the biggest stack involved in the pot.

Next hand: Damn, damn damn. I'm not ready to get into a race with donkeys yet...

POKERSTARS GAME #2125719171: TOURNAMENT #10123739, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (100/200) - 2005/07/17 - 18:42:13 (ET)
Table '10123739 23' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (6782 in chips)
Seat 3: ScoobyD (9710 in chips)
Seat 4: deque (945 in chips)
Seat 5: ELVIS28 (7690 in chips)
Seat 6: bparis (5335 in chips)
Seat 7: The Geek (11570 in chips)
Seat 8: Ellis_Island (14655 in chips)
Seat 9: Geritol49 (2345 in chips)
Mad_Deal: posts the ante 25
ScoobyD: posts the ante 25
deque: posts the ante 25
ELVIS28: posts the ante 25
bparis: posts the ante 25
The Geek: posts the ante 25
Ellis_Island: posts the ante 25
Geritol49: posts the ante 25
ScoobyD: posts small blind 100
deque: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ScoobyD [Jd Jc]
ELVIS28: calls 200
bparis: folds
The Geek: calls 200
Ellis_Island: folds
Geritol49: folds
Mad_Deal: calls 200
ScoobyD: raises 9485 to 9685 and is all-in - (Here's my thinking: If I make a donkey bet here after having to fold in a big pot the previous hand it will LOOK like I'm tilting, I think I might be able to get a weak
call with a smaller pocket pair. With no raise, I'm fairly sure my hand is best.)
deque: folds
ELVIS28: calls 7465 and is all-in (Yes! I got the weak call! No race, no race, no race!!!)
The Geek: folds
Mad_Deal: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ks 6d 4s]
*** TURN *** [Ks 6d 4s] [5h]
*** RIVER *** [Ks 6d 4s 5h] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ScoobyD: shows [Jd Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Sixes)
ELVIS28: shows [Kh Ad] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
Mad_Deal said, "vn"
ELVIS28 collected 16130 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 16130 | Rake 0
Board [Ks 6d 4s 5h 6c]
Seat 1: Mad_Deal (button) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ScoobyD (small blind) showed [Jd Jc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Sixes
Seat 4: deque (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: ELVIS28 showed [Kh Ad] and won (16130) with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 6: bparis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: The Geek folded before Flop
Seat 8: Ellis_Island folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Geritol49 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Obviously when I saw AK I felt horribly about the hand (although maybe I'm not so pissed off if I double through here)... Meh. So yes, in 2 hands I managed to piss off most of my stack. Feel free to tell me where and how badly I went wrong...

ScottyZ · Jul 20,2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Dealt to ScoobyD [Jd Jc]
ELVIS28: calls 200
bparis: folds
The Geek: calls 200
Ellis_Island: folds
Geritol49: folds
Mad_Deal: calls 200
ScoobyD: raises 9485 to 9685 and is all-in - (Here's my thinking: If I make a donkey bet here after having to fold in a big pot the previous hand it will LOOK like I'm tilting, I think I might be able to get a weak
call with a smaller pocket pair. With no raise, I'm fairly sure my hand is best.)

Making a raise to around 1,000 here makes more sense than moving all-in. An "appearance of tilt" play is too fancy for a 500FPP audience. Even an "advanced" table would be unlikely to put you on being on tilt after the previous hand, since most (appearance of) tilt is created by someone getting hit with a bad beat, not making an apparently tough laydown.

Apart from all that, even if someone is capable of buying in to the "on tilt" image you are trying to project, he would be reluctant to play against you (unless he has a real hand) even if you make a raise of typical size. A "table image" play does not need to be a gigantic deviation from fundamentals.

Behind multiple limpers, I would often limp along myself with the Jacks in a micro buy-in tourney.

Chances that your opponents will fold to a standard sized raise are much smaller than usual in a 500FPP tournament, and moving all-in with Jacks is a high risk - low reward play here.

Similarly...

Quote:

Dealt to ScoobyD [Ah Kh]
deque: folds
ELVIS28: calls 200
bparis: folds
The Geek: folds
Ellis_Island: calls 200
Geritol49: folds
Mad_Deal: calls 100
ScoobyD: raises 1200 to 1400 - (I figure 3BB + 3BB for 3 limpers, is this raise too small, or comitting too much?)

I would check the option in the BB here. Again the reason is that a standard-sized raise will get called far more often than usual in a micro buy-in tournament.

There is a big difference in how to play the exact hand AK in a micro buy-in tourney compared to a medium to large buy-in event. Specifically, when you flop an Ace or King, you're more likely to bust someone in a low buy-in tournament and be busted by someone in a high buy-in tournament. So, in a low buy-in tournament, you might want to see some cheap flops with your AK, whereas in a high buy-in tournament you might prefer to take advantage of that same hand's pre-flop betting power.

Quote:

*** TURN *** [9h Jd 6d] [8d] (what a shitty card, even if I WAS ahead on the flop, it's quite possible I'm drawing dead now)
ScoobyD: checks
Ellis_Island: bets 6055 and is all-in (the bet feels odd, I'm wondering if taking down the previous pot uncalled makes my table image seem a bit reckless, if he made his flush I'd expect him to try to milk me for some more chips, I realize this could be a move, but still can't call)

This seems like a perfectly sensible bet to make with a flush that is not Ace-high. If his flush does not contain the Ad, failing to move all-in here would be a significant error.

ScottyZ

Chugs · Jul 20,2005, 11:48 AM

Hand #1

I would have slightly underbet the pot (2/3 maybe), but that's a small difference

Hand #2

I gotta agree with Scotty, in this spot you quite often don't lose people, and you hand in that spot has the possibity of really biting people if you don't raise and take the option, the main issue is being out of position, actually making a hand becomes even more important.

He likely has the flush, or a pair with the K or A of the suit, or some crazy play with a set.

Hand #3

I do not like the all-in. I think a raise to 800-1000 is more appropriate.

ScoobyD · Jul 20,2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

This seems like a perfectly sensible bet to make with a flush that is not Ace-high.

I actually considered that after. I agree with you. The problem is, like you said in a micro buyin tourney I rarely would expect someone to make the "sensible" play.

I actually considered the limp with AK afterwards (definately lowest risk) but something about this just seems weak (can I really only raise AA, KK preflop in these types of tournies, even a weak player should pickup on that).

As far as the JJ hand I knew it was a high risk play going in, but I wasn't really looking for a fold, if I got one fine, but I expected a weak call (ie. a dominated hand), so I guess I have to take my lumps for overplaying that hand for most of my chips with my ridiculous overbet.

Oh well, next time I guess...