Hey everyone, im new here. been playing poker for 4 years now.
for the longest time ive been of the opinion that pocket queens are one of the worst great hands you can be dealt. its a strong hand on paper, but so much potential to lose lots of money with them. (AK calling you is a coin-toss)
in the last month or so, ive lost almost every hand ive been dealt pocket Queens. id like to, if i may, present a good example i ran into, and ask how you would play the hand.
last night i was at Club Regent here in Winnipeg ($1/2 no limit cash game), and had pocket Qs in late position. i raised to $12 preflop, and got 1 caller, on whom i have position. the flop came down, 2-K-9, rainbow. he checks to me, I bet $20. he raises to $40. (bear in mind, he is an agressive player, the kind that wanders over from the high-stakes blackjack table with a handfull of $25 chips)
what would you do?
I decided before i made the $20 bet, that if i was raised i would Insta-fold. i threw my cards in face up, and he shows me 1 card, a Ten. he slightly laughed too, kinda like someone would if they showed a bluff, but he only showed one card. he says "you have to pay to see the other one". i offer him a $5 chip to see (i get generous when ive tripled my buy-in). he refuses to show me. im quite certain ive been bluffed.
im not angry about that hand, it wasnt a big pot. im actually glad i was in the mood to toss pocket Qs that easily. when i Insta-fold a big pocket pair that quickly, I like to tell myself ive gained a little table image.
I'm pretty tired..but my first thought was..the king already happened, what are you afraid of on the turn? Ace? Maybe a check behind since the turn isn't likely to hurt you and you're insta-folding the raise?
dunno, sleep, coffee, think, and revisit tomorrow.
im not sure what you mean by "afraid of the turn". im not afraid of the turn, im afraid of paying another $20 into a hand that im likely beat in.
if preflop, i raise 6x the big blind, and i get called. im going to put them on, at the very least, King-rag, or Ace-rag (more likely im going to put them on Ace-face, 2 face cards, or pocket pair).
from their view, i raised 6x BB preflop (they should be putting me on the same hands i mentioned above). lets say they missed the flop, and i bet $20 like i did. theyre probably putting me on a King at least. the move is fold.
for him to raise double my $20 bet. he either has the King, or an underpair and hes looking for information.
over the next hour he bled chips very quickly (i took over $100 from him in one hand, there was a 4-flush on the board, and i took it with a 10-high flush. he showed me 2nd pair.)
i gave him too much credit early on, he turned out to be a total fish.
with the min raise it is hard to say, depends on what read you had on him, this same situation happened to me 2 nights ago but i knew the guy was a donk so when he did a small bet on a king high flop i reraised and he folded like i knew he would. If you had a good read and noticed he was betting alot of flops i would do a reraise, if tight player i would lean more to folding.
min raise tells me he had smaller pocket pair would be one of my thoughts.
Based on the fact that he showed one card and wouldn't show the other even for $5, tells me that he wasn't bluffing you. Showing a ten here is a piss poor attempt at making it look like he bluffed you, but when he won't show the second card, that indicates that he didn't want you to see it, because that would show that he wasn't bluffing.
What I believe Kristy_Sea meant was, that you could check the flop, if you suspect this guy is likely to checkraise, and also to keep the pot small.
The check-min-raise is rarely a bluff IMO, and there's no need to give him chips here, no knowing where you're at, because he's prolly going to give you some better opportunities later.
I'm going to have to disagree with your QQ statement and say that QQ is going to make you money in the long run. It's like those old bar nits who never raise with AK because it 'never hits'.
If it was a Bluff, he shows, he wants to piss you off.
I agree completely... What has he got to lose by not showing a bluff. All it is gonna do is get you pissed that you made the wrong decision. By not showing it says he clearly has it and is upset you didn't call.
Also, another factor in your decision would be stack sizes, but in this situation I think you made the right fold.
im not sure what you mean by "afraid of the turn". im not afraid of the turn, im afraid of paying another $20 into a hand that im likely beat in.
and my point is that if you're such a super-sick-psychic-reader-to-the-max..why did you donk off $20 in the first place?
With your 'read' and readiness to insta-fold to the min-raise: check the flop, there's very little coming that worsens your position..then you can fold for free if he bets the non-q turn.
Last edited by Kristy_Sea; Oct 08,2008 at 10:55 AM.
Sounds like your scared of any over cards. Remember if he has AK or something similiar he has a 35% chance of hitting one or the other on the flop. One opponent, one overcard I may take my chances. I certainly wouldn't have bet then fold to a min raise, I would have checked behind and seen the turn for free.
The board wasn't that scarey that I am afraid of the K.
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Kristy, why can't we all just get along?
I don't think you really played the hand that bad; you raised enough to reduce the field to a single player, when an over card came you bet to see where you stood and with the re-raise you are likely beat, so you folded. Do you really want to risk all your chips with second pair? definitely not. Better to wait for another opportunity when you have a better hand to get all your chips in the middle.
I guess you could try some other moves with QQ pre-flop. I guess it depends on the dynamics of the players at your table. If there are a few aggressive players to act behind you, calling is an option hoping for an opportunity to re-raise. Calling once in a while pre-flop (to mix up your game) is also an option. You don't want to be so predictable that everyone expects you to raise when you have a decent starting hand. If you get a dangerous flop, you can fold and move on with minimal damage to your stack.
As Joe mentioned, don't be afraid of over cards or a little resistance as your hand could still be good in this situation.
and my point is that if you're such a super-sick-psychic-reader-to-the-max..why did you donk off $20 in the first place?
With your 'read' and readiness to insta-fold to the min-raise: check the flop, there's very little coming that worsens your position..then you can fold for free if he bets the non-q turn.
i see what you mean about checking for a free turn, youre right that was the right move there. when i made the $20 bet, i was mostly looking for information, but it was also a bluff. it is a move i had been making all night when i was in position. raise preflop - if the flop is checked to me, i make a continuation bet. i would almost not even call it a bluff, its move i make whenever i have the chance (as long as my spider-senses dont go off, and i think im being trapped).
and i didnt say i had a read on him, just that i noticed he was a total gambler. for all i know he could have seen the flop with 6-8 offsuit, and just planned from the beginning to try to bet me out of the hand. it wouldnt have been unlike him, based on how i had seen him play.
but its also not entirely impossible he saw the flop with K-T. loose players are bound to make a good play once in a while.
anyways, thanks for the advice guys. i did make the wrong move there. but it wasnt too wrong. a $20 loss isnt something to post on the internet about, its just a hand i run into far too often.
I guess you could try some other moves with QQ pre-flop. I guess it depends on the dynamics of the players at your table. If there are a few aggressive players to act behind you, calling is an option hoping for an opportunity to re-raise.
that is definitely how i would have played it if i was in earlier position, as there were a few aggressive players at the table. i dont think a single flop was seen all night for only the $2 BB.
Hey everyone, im new here. been playing poker for 4 years now.
for the longest time ive been of the opinion that pocket queens are one of the worst great hands you can be dealt. its a strong hand on paper, but so much potential to lose lots of money with them. (AK calling you is a coin-toss)
in the last month or so, ive lost almost every hand ive been dealt pocket Queens. id like to, if i may, present a good example i ran into, and ask how you would play the hand.
last night i was at Club Regent here in Winnipeg ($1/2 no limit cash game), and had pocket Qs in late position. i raised to $12 preflop, and got 1 caller, on whom i have position. the flop came down, 2-K-9, rainbow. he checks to me, I bet $20. he raises to $40. (bear in mind, he is an agressive player, the kind that wanders over from the high-stakes blackjack table with a handfull of $25 chips)
what would you do?
I decided before i made the $20 bet, that if i was raised i would Insta-fold. i threw my cards in face up, and he shows me 1 card, a Ten. he slightly laughed too, kinda like someone would if they showed a bluff, but he only showed one card. he says "you have to pay to see the other one". i offer him a $5 chip to see (i get generous when ive tripled my buy-in). he refuses to show me. im quite certain ive been bluffed.
im not angry about that hand, it wasnt a big pot. im actually glad i was in the mood to toss pocket Qs that easily. when i Insta-fold a big pocket pair that quickly, I like to tell myself ive gained a little table image.
Preflop: 6bb is a fine bet at 1/2NL.
Flop: K92 rainbow is a pretty dry flop. Except for some vague straight possibilities there are not any draws. AX is drawing to 3 outs and not much more more can hurt you. It's okay to check and let your good position work for you. c-betting is fine too. but you don't need to c-bet 20, 40-60% pot is probably fine.
I'd bet $15 about 30% of the time here. .... checking the other 70% of the time.
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Not smarter than a grade 5 or Kristy Sea
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