livepokeredmontonftw

Reads
Villain and me have played alot of hands together. We have a pretty agro unique dynamic. She is a huge calling station vs me both pre and post flop but is willing to occasionally bluff bet postflop but I have never seen her bluff raise.
We are $1,800 effective
Example hands she played
She limps in UTG with K5o, Tilted guy blind raises to $40 with a $150 stack, online guy repops it to $150 total, she call $150, tilted guy calls BLIND and is AI. Flop is 652hh. Online guy shoves for $500 and she calls $500 and turns a K and river blanks and she scoops, online guy had QQ
a few limps, she raises to $7 with AK, i reraise to $25 with AJo to isolate, one limper calls and she calls. Flop is 854 limper checks, she bets $30, i raise to $90, limper folds she calls turn is a J and she bets $100, i call River is a blank and she check/calls $100 with Ace high
Villain is in the CO in this hand
Hero is dealt AA OTB
5 limps including villain, Hero raises to $20, 2 limpers call (they are both relativly shortstacked and not really essential to this hand), she calls
Flop is 543r
checks to villain who bets $75, Hero
Folding is obv outta the question, it is just between raise/fold and calling and reeval turn. I chose to call/reeval turn but I felt like i lost alot of value here. Curious as to your thoughts.

masterplan

I'm almost always raising there.
I don't blame the call for pot control considering the stack sizes, but I think you missed at least $100 value there.

GTA Poker

I assume that this is 1/2 given that she is raising to 7.

K5o hand you didn't mention her suits post flop which makes some difference regarding future reads.

The AK hand you had terrible bet sizing on the river vs a calling station. The pot is $455 and you value bet $100 on the river when you are clearly ahead of a station -- you should be betting $220 in that spot if you feel she has worse and will call you with it. What range did you put her on here? I would certainly put AK on the bottom of her river range.

AA hand.

Pre: $20 is a pretty small raise in that spot in most 1/2 games. I'm surprised you didn't get called by all the limpers making your hand pretty unplayable.

Flop: when a station decides to bet large all of a sudden and all I have is an overpair on a board where I could be drawing dead to a made hand then I flat the flop for pot control and re-evaluate on the turn. You need to post more about her preflop and betting tendencies. You say she is a station -- how does she play 77-tt and jj-kk preflop? Has she ever bet the pot/overbet the pot in any other situations? Without more info on this player I am trying to showdown cheaply based solely on her flop action when I have 1 pair 900bb deep -- this could change on future streets depending on her actions.

Her range is an overpair, a hand that crushes you (straight/set), a big drawing that you are 40-50% against (56/66) or A5. Most 1/2 players would check a straight/set to the raiser on a rainbow board. From your description of her she is not a good enough player to try and build a huge pot deep by betting the nuts or a set into you. Stations don't usually spazz with top pair so I would take A5 out of her range. Either she thinks she has a strong hand (overpair) or she is bluffing (I don't associate bluffs with stations but this was in your description -- what bet sizing has she used in previous flop bluffs?) based on your description of her.

My money is generally on an overpair but I still flat and re-evaluate the turn that deep. If she had 77-tt you may think you lost value by flatting but you also have to evaluate how she interprets a raise of her huge flop bet. Flatting may make you more money on later streets than setting off alarm bells by raising to 200 on the flop given that you were the preflop raiser...remember she called you down with ace high and may be thinking that that is in your range as well. Even stations can sniff out when they are told they are beat for 900bb.

In summary, based solely on your description of her I lean towards 66-tt and am almost always flatting the flop this deep for value and to protect my stack value at a deep table. If I were at the table I could probably pick up a bit more info.

Lol Edmonton 1/2. Was this Argyl or Yhead?

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

livepokeredmontonftw

It was at Argyll at 10am on a Wednesday (lol, Edmonton 1/2 )
I agree in the Aj vs Ak hand I should of vbet bigger.
In the K5o hand, she did not have a heart.
$20 is a small raise at 1/2? Me and her were the only super deep stacks at the table, and there was not a straddle out. Whats your sizing here?
I agree with your postflop analysis somewhat. I agree that I should of been paying more attention but tbh I was kinda on autopilot that session. I am not sure she is that perceptive as to the size of the pot.

I called the flop and one shortstacker called as was AI. Turn was a J, she checked and I bet $100 and she folded.
Anyways after the hand, she told me she had 78s and led the flop for $75 b/c she expected me to bet $100 and she would rather see the turn for $75 then $100. She said she didnt bet $50 b/c she expected me to raise a $50 bet but flat a $75 bet.

GTA Poker

Re: $20...it depends on the table and your image somewhat. I have raised $30 in that spot and had everyone come along. In theory it is not a small raise, but at some tables it can be too small to thin the field. Then again, I generally play like a lagtard so I have raised $40 in that spot and had 4 callers. You were there so you have a better feel for raise sizing there than me.

Re: 78s...and her explanation..and her logic (and I do believe she is telling the truth because she sounds too bad to make up such a terrible story). Retarded. She overbet the pot so she could see her 8% chance of hitting her gutty that is never getting paid off with a 4 straight on board for $25 less. Re Tard Ed. Her only reasonable line there is to c/f given that you almost never have a 7 in your hand there for a big payoff.

If she had 78 you can never get value in that spot so I don't see why you are thinking that you lost value by flatting. She folded for less than 1/2 the pot on the turn...do you think she is going to call a significant raise on the flop?

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

I feel like you could have picked up this tell earlier in the session. I guess it comes down to is she passive or aggressive post, and does she ever donk out (thats a donk right?). And maybe how did she play her draws oop.

On this kinda board are we ever expecting to get re raised as a bluff? Like will she donk/re rasie TT or a draw? Does she ever have QQ or KK and re raise you on the flop. I think not usually ......certainly maybe with a hand that beats you. I think calling is fine for pot control and 2 -3 streets of value tho....

But sometimes here I will min raise, they will almost never bluff re raise, esp live and generalizing about ladies. it also keeps the pot manageable yet bloats it enough that we can create a giant one on the turn and river if we need to. Lastly since its a fairly strong and aggressive bet, we will usually get checked to on the turn.

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

GTA Poker

Flatting gets way more value from other overpairs/bluffs than raising the flop. She never has (JJ)QQ-KK in this spot in a live 1/2 game with the preflop action so we are scaring out bluffs from barreling and making lower overpairs question the strength of their hands with a raise on the flop.

Also, if she is uber retarded and thinks 99-TT is good in this spot then you are put in a terribad spot getting 3bet deep.

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

pokerJAH

I see a train wreck coming. $20 raise w effective stacks of $1,800?

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Vegas June 15 -19

darbday

If we cap her range we are left with a donk range of nutted hands like sets, two pair, and straight.....drawing hands like straight draw, and ak/aq.....made hands we beat like TT....and air......

prob less nutted hands leading out.

I think the point is most of her hands will call a min raise, as all air are basically over cards. And you are right it might slowdown some action but so will an inevitable over card on the turn. But this min raise is part freeze for pot control....

yes we need to know this won't happen and I didn't realize how super deep we are....

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

ottawaplayer

Based upon the description of the villian, I am either calling here or raising very large to end the hand.

Calling manages the size of the pot and and allows you to re-evaluate after the turn and let her fire away again. I don't want to get re-raised here.

Alternative is to re-raise large to end this hand. There are some cards that could land on the turn that change this hand and put some of her potentially spewy cards into play.

Also, I am not sure of the whole table dynamics, but with the agro image, I agree with GTA that the $20 pre-flop raise seems a bit small with 5 limpers... so I am raising to $30/35 so that i can range any callers a bit better.

Richard~

Did you really let his bs explanation get to you so much that you had to make a thread for it? :P

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~Games are lost, games are won you'll find the strength to carry on~

Meistro

maybe i play too much omaha but w/ 4 players to the flop, these deep of stacks and a passive player ocming alive with a pot sized bet + the fact the hand was posted in a forum makes me concerned about the strength of my opponents hand.