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Thread: $1 / $3 Cash game hand at Niagara

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  1. #16
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    Also there is no one size fits all in poker. There are different lines one may take given different scenarios in order to reach their perceived maximum value on each hand. I am not saying you must listen to me as you do as you feel fit. I am merely providing my logical argument for why I play the hand in question the way I do. And in both scenarios you may be happy with the results if they work in your favour, and if not, evaluate why you were unhappy with the result and where could you have changed the outcome any.

  2. #17
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    Results don't really matter and as we can see there are so many different ways to play this. By the way, this isn't my hand, it was Nicole's and she's been bothered by it, so I thought about posting it to see what other opinions are.
    She just flatted the flop, turn was an 8 and mid position caller had J-9, one of two hands that beats her. (Q-Q being the other and less likely) and she lost her stack.
    As others have said, raising the flop is an option but in my opinion, and knowing the mid position player, I don't think they fold to a raise on the flop. And the original raiser had A-Q and he called all the way down as well with TPTK.

  3. #18
    Sorry sir, I have 6 Aces! Card Dead's Avatar
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    I agree with Alex (Holy Crap, did I just say that?

    Re-raising that flop kills a ton of your value, like the older lady did with her KK. Her overbet got AK to fold and the 16-outer to call. I also like flatting here as it disguises your hand more, giving you better value on future streets.

    As played, I thought her only mistake was open-shoving the river. At this point she's only getting called by a better hands and is folding out almost all lesser hands. She also takes the shove away from from busted draws, AQ, and any 2-pair hands that may be out there.

    Until then, she had kept the AQ in the hand, but got turned by the J9. I also think it's bugging her more because of who won the hand than how she played it.
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  4. #19
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    Hey DJ,

    I think that the results do matter a lot. It is the results that allow us to evaluate the play and break down potential leaks and spots to improve IF there are any.

    So let me put it this way, that exact scenario is why I say calling is the best option.

    If your on the flop and you got mid set you have the second nuts on the board. Cbet is common but also could have the hands as described AK AQ AJ A10 AA Kk less likely QQ JJ all the way to under pairs. The mid position is most likely a weak top pair or drawing hand. If both players are on a drawing hand they take each other's outs and your even further ahead. If they have any single paired hands over pair even bottom set your getting paid. So if you reraise you fold out all weak hands that give value on future streets when the board bricks out the draw and the river you go for value and they cry call. Mid position folds.

    If you reraise there then the mistake is on the mid position if they flat call as they are giving away hiuuuge value. If you flat and then get in a spot where mod position jams on turn after a feeler bet you need to be able to fold this as there are very few bluffs here and it's all nutted. Now let's say Nicole checked the turn utg2 checks mid position bets out with the nuts and Nicole jams that is horrible as well because very very very thin value and most times called by better.

    So I check call flop. Check turn evaluate if it checks through or call behind one more time with the 9 and check river to see. By checking you keep bluffs in and can decide on the river to go for value or just call and save your stack. If you check river and mid position jams due to size of the pot you need to be able to fold. And I say need to be able to fold if your going to just flat the flop.

    If you are in a spot like what happened and you are playing in to the river and willing to call off a stack to a jam then it was played horrible because your allowing the player so much equity and implied odds by coming along even with a raise cuz they have position. So if you are willing to get all the chops in the middle, my suggestion would be to check the flop and jam on a flop bet. You now give them very little equity to draw out on you and they must decide if their outs and the size of the pot is worth it. Most times you will take it down there, other times your going to stack them when they call instead of allowing them to see a cheap turn and fold when they miss. And sometimes they are going to pay to draw and they hit. They were -ev to make that call in the position you out them in. Not to mention what if AQ calls behind your jam and mid position now feels forced to fold.

    Anyways that is just my .02 but you need to evaluate the results to find the leaks and spots to improve.

    Btw welcome to the dark side Glen.
    Last edited by Irunit4times; Feb 21,2018 at 01:52 PM.

  5. #20
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    Good to see some poker talk here on the poker forum.

    I learned some stuff reading these replies.

  6. #21
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    My bad advice is always free all you gotta do is ask. Hell sometimes you don't even have to ask and I'll give my bad advice.

    Just remember doing the same thing all the time gets old so mix it up once in a while and have fun. =)

  7. #22
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    What I meant by the results don't matter, is that the scenario got a good discussion going regardless of the outcome of the hand.

  8. #23
    High Roller. Bfillmaff's Avatar
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    I don't think there's anything wrong with raising or calling... I'd certainly be mixing in both.

    Probably lean towards raising given that there are two opponents and I have crap a lot there... but I'd think it's close enough to be fine either way. Maybe just adjust based on table dynamic... ie raise more when I have an image that looks like I'm out of line (never happens!) and call more when one of the two opponents seems that way.

    Alex holy shit welcome back!


    edit... disclaimer: I am probably the third worst player, after comp and DJ
    Last edited by Bfillmaff; Feb 21,2018 at 05:47 PM.

  9. #24
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djgolfcan View Post
    What I meant by the results don't matter, is that the scenario got a good discussion going regardless of the outcome of the hand.
    Fair enough, just using it as a fire starter then =)

  10. #25
    Full PFC Member Irunit4times's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bfillmaff View Post
    Alex holy shit welcome back!


    edit... disclaimer: I am probably the third worst player, after comp and DJ
    Thank you, glad to be back, missed a bunch of these crazy people so my hiatus has ended, that and I have let go of reasons which kept me away lol.

    P.s. It takes a strong man to hold everyone up from the bottom and seeing as im the biggest, ill take the title of worst player

  11. #26
    Forum Troll - Admin Style westside8's Avatar
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    Someone with an OESD there isn't folding to a CR, neither will a hand like KJ. This is a 1-3 game where players hate folding AFAIK. I doubt someone is peeling with a pair between 4s and 9s, I've found lower limit games player will setmine and give up pretty easily. Obviously things could've changed, but this is a spot I'm going to try to find a way to play for stacks. You accomplish that goal by CRing here.

    IMO, pretty big difference if the effective stack is 300 or 400. If it's 300, a CR to 70~ will leave you a PSB on the turn with 1 caller. Where as 400 will leave you a slightly more awkward stack to jam the turn.

    I don't mind flatting if you had position, but OOP I rather take the betting lead.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by djgolfcan View Post
    Everyone is fairly deep stacked, between $300 - $400 each

    Sitting in the BB with T-T - UTG+2 raises to $16 - there was a straddle to $6 - mid position calls, folds to BB who also calls, straddle folds.

    Flop is Q - T - 3 rainbow - original raiser leads out for $20, mid position calls -

    BB ?
    I'm raising here. Your job is to get stacks in. Low limit players don't bluff enough. Lots of players playing broadway hands hit this flop.

    Not raising is a huge blunder.
    Looking for poker buddies. PM me.

  13. #28
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    What was the action on the turn?

  14. #29
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    I think a raise to 55 to fatten up the pot. Then hope for a paired board turn or air ball and hope someone makes a big bet. If checked around on turn i jam it in. Could easily pump it 100 on turn also

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irunit4times View Post
    I would be flatting for a few reasons. 1. the play at 1-3 will not be as good so there will be many mistakes. I would keep all crap hands in
    Your logic contradicts itself from the beginning.

    If the quality of play is bad, put more chips in when our equity is ahead.

    In other words, if mistakes are common because our opponents are bad - give them opportunities to make those mistakes. Calling and giving a card is not inducing a mistake.
    Last edited by BankItDrew; Apr 11,2018 at 02:42 PM.

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