2/5NL 88 Mid set CR on turn A83r(6r) board.

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 07:03 PM

2/5NL Live.

Sometimes I feel like such a donkey.

Background on villain.

AA I bet $25 UTG

2 callers,
Young Villain calls BB

Flop QT3r

Villain donks $85, I raise to $225, Villain shoves all in $580, I call.

Villain shows pair under mid pair, 99 and rivers a set.

*************************************
Same villain 4 hours later.

88 UTG I ($700) raise to $15 UTG

1 caller, Villain bb ($1300) raises to $50.

I call $35 more.

Flop A83r

Villain checks , I bet $50 Villain calls,

Turn Tr

Villain checks , I bet $185

Villain check raises for $485 more.

Hero?

Feel free to make crit on all streets!

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 07:26 PM

errr, ship? What did you hope for on flop? If he hit set of 10's on turn, chalk it up to a bad bad night.

Did you have any history with the guy prior?

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuease

errr, ship? What did you hope for on flop? If he hit set of 10's on turn, chalk it up to a bad bad night.

Did you have any history with the guy prior?

Over the last 4 hours the first hand I posted shows off his "thinking"

He's very aggressive.

After he check raised me $485 on the turn, I decide to engage him in conversation.

Hero: What do you have?

Villain: nothing.

Hero: laughs... I think I'm not smart enough to fold this...

Villain: I promise you I don't have 9's...

Hero: I can beat 9's...

... At this point I'm running out of things to say..

Suggestions?

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 07:40 PM

If you convinced yourself to fold here you are playing above your comfort level.

very very feel dependant... I could not find a fold here unless this was some old nit (like me) who plays nothing but nuts.

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 07:42 PM

See the problem is I don't think even very aggressive recreational donks have the balls or creativity to make a shove check raise my near pot sized raise with anything but AA here.

Tourists don't make big check raise buffs like this do they?

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 07:45 PM

.. I say, "Sorry guys, I need a bit to think about this"

... I'm afraid you would play aces like this wouldn't you?

... // I don't get a reaction... he sits silent...

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compuease

If you convinced yourself to fold here you are playing above your comfort level.

very very feel dependant... I could not find a fold here unless this was some old nit (like me) who plays nothing but nuts.

I've comfortable with the stakes, I've been playing 10/20NL and 10/25NL.
Assume the money means nothing except as a device to keep score.

What hand can he have to play this way, except AA, TT or a bluff?

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefAquarium

See the problem is I don't think even very aggressive recreational donks have the balls or creativity to make a shove check raise my near pot sized raise with anything but AA here.

Tourists don't make big check raise buffs like this do they?

Depends, maybe this money means nothin to him.. Can you put him on A,10?

Now I generally only play 1/2 so that would mean I was playing for a like $300. stack instead of $700. but I can't find a fold here.

It sure looks like you folded and he didn't show, right?

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefAquarium

I've comfortable with the stakes, I've been playing 10/20NL and 10/25NL.
Assume the money means nothing except as a device to keep score.

What hand can he have to play this way, except AA, TT or a bluff?

As I said A,10? Damn, how do you guys separate yourself from the value of money? If I lost a grand or 10 it wouldn't change my life (other than hearing it from the wife.) but I can't bring myself to gamble it.. That's why I stick to 1/2..

darbday · Dec 18,2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefAquarium

I've comfortable with the stakes, I've been playing 10/20NL and 10/25NL.
Assume the money means nothing except as a device to keep score.

What hand can he have to play this way, except AA, TT or a bluff?

first hand shows villain is capable of check raising with air? like he doesn't use any equity....he cr'd with no out pretty much...

here villain's range is polarized i think, which is your issue....he has nuts or air..

well he can have two pair which he views as the nuts

shouldn't we check the dry flop back ?

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 08:40 PM

Now consider this problem with a turn of 6r rather than Tr.

Board is now A83r(6r)

Now AT and TT are not in his range...

Does it turn a call into a fold?

Darbday:

Checking back the bone dry flop would avoid this problem but....

I didn't check back the flop because I wanted to build a massive fucking pot.
I bet the flop because I wanted to build a pot.
I bet the turn to set up a river shove without overbetting the pot.

But I didn't think he would CR me without a hand that beats me (AA)

Is this a bet fold?

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 08:50 PM

I guess I'm a bad player cuz there is no turn there that I don't get it in if I get the chance. Unless, as I said before, op only plays the nuts.

darbday · Dec 18,2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefAquarium

Now consider this problem with a turn of 6r rather than Tr.

Board is now A83r(6r)

Now AT and TT are not in his range...

Does it turn a call into a fold?

Darbday:

Checking back the bone dry flop would avoid this problem but....

I didn't check back the flop because I wanted to build a massive fucking pot.
I bet the flop because I wanted to build a pot.
I bet the turn to set up a river shove without overbetting the pot.

But I didn't think he would CR me without a hand that beats me (AA)

Is this a bet fold?

i know youre saying that his cr range on the turn makes you want to fold but something still needs to be said about the (sklansky) error of trying to build a big pot and then folding when you get your desired result....

especially if villain is capable of bluffing and cring with out any equity vs a reasonable calling range...

ReefAquarium · Dec 18,2011, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

i know youre saying that his cr range on the turn makes you want to fold but something still needs to be said about the (sklansky) error of trying to build a big pot and then folding when you get your desired result....

especially if villain is capable of bluffing and cring with out any equity vs a reasonable calling range...

Well, I'm value owning myself.

I want to go for thin value from KK, QQ JJ, AK, AQs,

Is this a bet/fold on the turn?

compuease · Dec 18,2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReefAquarium

Well, I'm value owning myself.

I want to go for thin value from KK, QQ JJ, AK, AQs,

Is this a bet/fold on the turn?

If you really think he's capable with less than 2 pr here, then I call his turn raise and see if he will bet the river since there is no real scare card that can come.

edit: Just reread, that $485. puts you all in so there is no river play... I do not see a fold.