2 pair on flop, out of position

scam · May 15,2008, 11:56 AM

Curious to hear how people would play this hand:

$5/5 NL game, fairly loose
In small blind with J7 offsuit, no raise, 5 people in
Flop = AJ7 (2 spades)
Turn = K of spades
River = 8 of spades

What did I do?

I checked the flop hoping for a check-raise and to end the hand there, but nobody bet. When the board showed 3 spades on the turn (and a possible straight) I checked as well, no bets. On the river there was now 4 spades (I didn't have any) and 2 straights, it was checked by everyone.

Winner of the hand was a KQ with 1 spade, someone else showed an Ace.

BBC Z · May 15,2008, 12:09 PM

What kind of game allows you to retroactively bet on the streets after all 5 cards are shown?

pokerJAH · May 15,2008, 12:15 PM

obviously, not betting the flop was a big mistake. Your hoping someone else hit this flop with an ace. The turn is a very dangerous card for sure. Depending on your stacks, a pot size bet may be warranted on the turn. You want to see where you stand and make them pay to see the river. I would probably bet $25 on the flop and $80-$100 on the turn (maybe more if I get a lot of callers on the flop bet). If you get a lot of resistance on the turn, you will have to decide whether you can let the hand go. The check-raise on the flop is not a good play as you let other players catch up for nothing. Better to come out betting with two pair.

Pantsonfire · May 15,2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scam

Curious to hear how people would play this hand:

$5/5 NL game, fairly loose
In small blind with J7 offsuit, no raise, 5 people in
Flop = AJ7 (2 spades)
Turn = K of spades
River = 8 of spades

What did I do?

I checked the flop hoping for a check-raise and to end the hand there, but nobody bet. When the board showed 3 spades on the turn (and a possible straight) I checked as well, no bets. On the river there was now 4 spades (I didn't have any) and 2 straights, it was checked by everyone.

Winner of the hand was a KQ with 1 spade, someone else showed an Ace.

Stack sizes are important here.

pf - fold J7off. 67off or even 97off is much better. J7off is trash.
flop - bet into loose players, always and bet pot.
turn - this is where stack size is important. With deep stacks, I probably slow down here.
river - damn check/call up to a half pot bet.

Edit: The guy with A checking the flop and guy with pair of Ks with flush draw checking the turn would make this a loose passive table. Make these guys your new poker buddies.

DrTyore · May 15,2008, 12:26 PM

I like the call from SB with J7...

You flopped two pair on a draw heavy board... bet out

You have bottom two pair which can easily be counterfeited bet out

You didn't and lost... shoulda bet

Mark

pokerJAH · May 15,2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantsonfire

pf - fold J7off. 67off or even 97off is much better. J7off is trash.

No need to fold pf as already posted $5 blind. Otherwise, agree, these cards are definitely a fold pre-flop.

m_dolens · May 15,2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrTyore

I like the call from SB with J7...

You flopped two pair on a draw heavy board... bet out

You have bottom two pair which can easily be counterfeited bet out

You didn't and lost... shoulda bet

Mark

exactly. bottom two pair = bet the flop. chances of you improving = highly unlikely. chances of someone sucking out = highly likely. bet it and bet it big (around 3/4 to pot size).

m_dolens · May 15,2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Z

What kind of game allows you to retroactively bet on the streets after all 5 cards are shown?

and here's another prime example of what i was referring to in my other post earlier today (which you felt compelled to comment on). how about some constructive criticism or comments instead of the sarcastic gibes?

pokerJAH · May 15,2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m_dolens

and here's another prime example of what i was referring to in my other post earlier today (which you felt compelled to comment on). how about some constructive criticism or comments instead of the sarcastic gibes?

constructive criticism.... I think you are referring to another site.

m_dolens · May 15,2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

constructive criticism.... I think you are referring to another site.

yeah, i'm starting to think you're right. guess that's my bad.

pokerJAH · May 15,2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m_dolens

yeah, i'm starting to think you're right. guess that's my bad.

I find winning players usually have a positive frame of mind so this might explain a lot of things. Bad day at the table = bad attitude towards the game.

BBC Z · May 15,2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

and here's another prime example of what i was referring to in my other post earlier today (which you felt compelled to comment on). how about some constructive criticism or comments instead of the sarcastic gibes?

It's not a saracstic 'gibe', you ruin the conversation when you tell everyone the board cards before you get to your logic.

But seriously, if you want hugs, get a girlfriend.

Pantsonfire · May 15,2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

No need to fold pf as already posted $5 blind. Otherwise, agree, these cards are definitely a fold pre-flop.

My bad, I always assume 2/5 instead of 5/5.

GTA Poker · May 15,2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantsonfire

My bad, I always assume 2/5 instead of 5/5.

2/5 with j7o i complete for sure...every time, always, for ever...i complete with the cut card and a deuce as well

pkrfce9 · May 15,2008, 09:18 PM

in general, i would play this pretty fast. when i am confident some crazy asian will bluff, i will go for the check raise. then fold when i get re-raised...