syphilaids

At a local casino, and after a phone call, Hero's got his chips racked ready to party scoring 2.5 BI for the day.
He's UTG with with 67 and thinks "Ah what the hell, last hand" and calls $2.

UTG+1 calls
MP+1 Calls
MP+3 Raise to $5
CO Calls
Bu Calls
both blinds call, I call, MP+1 calls
(really should check out some live poker in vancouver, so juicy)

Pot = $40
FLOP
579

Hero bets $20
Everyone folds to SB (villian) who Calls $20.
SB is known to me as a loose but solid player, can be very trappy, doesn't try to put money in the pot when behind, yet still likes to make moves.
He has approx. $280 behind after this bet

Pot = $80
TURN
5
Villian donk bets $30
Hero thinks, Calls $30

RIVER
Pot = $140
4
Villian bets $30
Hero ?

We made our flush but I really do not know where I stand. I higher flush to me seems very unlikely, There is no reason for him to donk bet unless it was a blocking bet. Full House also seems unlikely, I dont see him smooth calling 75, 95, 99, 77, or 55 OOP then donk betting the turn, but he is very trappy and still capable of making plays like this. he might do the same with 86, a made straight, but the whole line of play confuses me.

What would you do on the turn and river? Do we raise for value on the river or call and hope we have the best?

syphilaids

*BUMP
OI! Posted this a while ago, no one knows or no one cares?
or am I just too n00b to understand?

fedh8er

I would have done exactly what you did.. he have a full house then good for him, you got beat.. odds are against it though.

call it out and see what you got.

I hate threads like this because like doyle says, PLAY THE PLAYER, NOT THE CARDS.

what ended up happening?

syphilaids

He turned over 86o for a flopped striaght.

fedh8er

ok, so you killed him, nice job... not to mention u had a straight flush draw off the flop.

not sure why you made a thread about it, its just another hand as far as im concerned...

T8urmoney

I probably play it the same....if you raise the river, this villain will only be calling with a better hand.

Against some players, raising the river can be profitable, but not the player as described.

__________________
bumblebeetuna

syphilaids

The thread is about EV. I'm obviously calling, but the bet looks like either a suck bet or a blocking bet.
The question Im asking is whether or not to raise the river for value. I've talked to a few people about this, most say raise to 80 and fold to an all-in, so im curious as to what others would have to say.

I highly doubt that villian would fold a straight to a value raise. Also doubt he'd fold two pair or an overpair.

Kristy_Sea

this will sound nitty..but I probably fold the turn. Against that many players otf, I have a hard time imagining that our flush or straight are going to be good on the paired board if we hit.

(I'll bump the flop pretty often too with hands like this, though likely not in this particular instance with a bunch of loose-passive players)

syphilaids

To be honest, I don't think there is anything wrong with folding, but against this LAG player I believe my flush draw is good. At the same time I understand what you're saying. Im drawing to a flush, and If I don't get a big bet in on the river then implied odds are useless, and the pot odds hardly compensate.
If the turn wasn't HU, and villian made a significant raise I'd agree on folding, but he's betting less then half the pot OOP. I definetely don't want to raise the turn with my 1 pair, but when I'm drawing so well and stacks are at stake I think its worth peeling a card.

Kristy_Sea

Then you have your answer, don't you? Saying/believing that- you need to raise the river.

blackmagicz

If villian makes his hand on the turn (IE boat) why he is leading after you made bet on the flop?

Seems to me the bet on the turn and the bet on the river were blocking bets. I think a full house will play a different line here. Plus the bet sizing is horrible for him to be repping a full house.

I mean if you call the turn on a paired board and he has some sort of hand I don't see on the river how he bets so small.

In 1/2 always watch those "I don't know if I am good" river bets. They are usually not a nut hand but some monster. Clearly if villian has a full house he would have at least put in 70-80 bucks on the river.

syphilaids

yes ty. I think this is true. The fear of the boat got a hold of me so I smooth called....

Yeah like black said I think its a blocking bet. Just curious on other people's lines.

iNano78

Here's my take:

[QUOTE=syphilaids;202912]At a local casino, and after a phone call, Hero's got his chips racked ready to party scoring 2.5 BI for the day.
He's UTG with with 67 and thinks "Ah what the hell, last hand" and calls $2.[quote]

I don't like this hand from UTG, but whatever. It's certainly not a "mistake" to call.

Your odds have only improved since your opening call, and although you're OOP to the raiser after the flop, it's unlikely anybody is going raise behind you (unless you've seen it before?) so it's worth a call here. Besides, your hand is well-disguised if it hits (as are all the other calls).

Comment on MP+3's play: Do Vancouver players often put in such tiny pre-flop raises behind so many calls at this place (the pot was already $9)? Regardless of MP+3's hand, if it's worth a raise, at least bump it to $12+ or you're just throwing money into a multi-way pot that you're inevitably going to lose. Damn, I wish I lived in Vancouver...

Great flop for you. Definitely have to bet here. I'd go with somewhere in the $20-$25 range. Just be careful if a 6 comes on a later street, 'cause it will hurt more than it will help.

Sounds to me like your opponent could easily be slow-playing a small pair that flopped a set, or straight draw (perhaps with a flush draw to boot, but you've got some of those cards), or a nut-flush draw. An overpair is probably unlikely, given the pre-flop play and check-call on the flop. In short, it sounds like some of your "outs" might be counterfeit, so I proceed with caution in this situation.

Horrible card for you. Any 5 is way ahead, and now you're drawing dead against any flopped set that just filled up. The only hands in your opponent's presumed range that you're beating here are flush draws and straight draws, and would he bet those in this situation? Probably not.

Your pair of 7's is certainly behind, and your four-flush might be drawing dead. You're getting 3.67:1 odds, which is just barely enough if all 11 of your outs (9 spades and 2 sevens) are live, but they probably aren't. In my opinion, it's a pretty easy fold. Time to cash out.

If villain had the boat, he'd probably make a bigger value bet here (maybe even push) in hopes that you hit the flush and will call off a big chunk of your stack. This little bet is fishy, like he only has trip-5s or a 9 for two-pair and is afraid of the flush.

If that's your read, then you could put in a raise here... But a raise is only going to get called if you're beat, so it's certainly -EV to raise. In fact, maybe he's hoping you'll see the $30 as a weak play and is hoping you'll make a mistake by raising...

You definitely can't fold your baby flush here; your getting 5.67:1, so you have to call. If he shows you a higher flush or a boat, "nice hand, sir".

syphilaids

TY for the comments. I see what you're saying on the turn.