Ever fold Kings preflop?

blackmagicz · Sep 29,2009, 10:32 AM

Glad I could help a bit....always good to see strategy discussed on the forums....helps everyone out...I like to read this stuff

schabs · Sep 29,2009, 11:42 PM

Bubble of a major live tournament, folding KK preflop I dont think is a bad idea...anyone?

blackmagicz · Sep 30,2009, 08:51 AM

KK in a tourney is played differently than in a cash game. Once again the consideration in a tourney is always: Are you looking to cash or looking to win?

In the Caesars Megastack I got it in with KK from BB knowing very well that UTG had limped possibly with AA, I did find out after I re-raised from the BB and he re-raised me...

But I spiked a K....so it worked out...but that was for my entire tournament life and we were close to the bubble....

actyper · Sep 30,2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schabs

Bubble of a major live tournament, folding KK preflop I dont think is a bad idea...anyone?

Only if all the below is true IMO

a) Right on the bubble
b) You satellited in
c) There are others with stacks lower than you
d) You have less than 10BB (prob even lower)

$ is good, but not life changing. You want to play for the life changing $.

I actually squeezed from the BB with KK around 10 from the money in the wsop me. Nervous but I knew it had to be done.

blackmagicz · Sep 30,2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actyper

Only if all the below is true IMO

a) Right on the bubble
b) You satellited in
c) There are others with stacks lower than you
d) You have less than 10BB (prob even lower)

$ is good, but not life changing. You want to play for the life changing $.

I actually squeezed from the BB with KK around 10 from the money in the wsop me. Nervous but I knew it had to be done.

+1, playing to cash will never allow you to win outright....

syphilaids · Sep 30,2009, 05:03 PM

Wow...

Even in a tourny, even on the bubble, you have no reason to fold KK. A guy is going to get AA 1 in 220 times, which is true for all PPs. Based on that, the odds of KK running into AA is 1/220 * 1/220 = 1:48400 hands.

The bubble imo is the perfect time to play KK. ESPECIALLY low stacked <15bbs. People are either playing way to tight or way to aggressive, and I'd either limp shove or open shove every time. You may get called by Ax but you're still way ahead, and its an awesome place to double up. The only time I can see folding is if you are in the bubble and satisfied with taking last place money, like its lifechanging money, like wsop. EVEN then I wouldn't fold. I'd rather go out on KK on the bubble from a donkey call then get blinded away and forced to shove with something stupid like KQ and make 2-3x my BI.

pokerJAH · Oct 01,2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphilaids

the odds of KK running into AA is 1/220 * 1/220 = 1:48400 hands.

I think in one of the Harrington books it mentions you will run into AA with KK about 1 in 20 times. Both of these events are mutually exclusive and you have to take into account there are 10 players at your table. Its really 4.3% chance at a full 10 player table.

blackmagicz · Oct 01,2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

I think in one of the Harrington books it mentions you will run into AA with KK about 1 in 20 times. Both of these events are mutually exclusive and you have to take into account there are 10 players at your table. Its really 4.3% chance at a full 10 player table.

Also take into account that the avg player may be playing tighter so the range of hands that people are opening with will dictate more often than not two big hands colliding.

pokerJAH · Oct 01,2009, 11:25 AM

its like breakeven Jerry on Sienfeld; luckily you will run into KK with AA the same number of times you hold KK and run into aces. Recently I had KK and ended up all-in vs AA on a Q high flop. Cost me around $500. Last week I had AA and ran into QQ on a dry board. Ended up all in on the flop again for a +500 pot. Its really hard to get away from these hands heads up, especially when the board isn't too dangerous.

Regulator · Oct 01,2009, 01:48 PM

Since you guys brought up the the tournaments, I was near the bubble on a satellite for a $200 buy in, with a decent stack and had AA on a dry flop, chip leader went all in and I called, he showed AA aswell, then hit the runner runner flush lol.

Meistro · Oct 04,2009, 12:15 PM

This hand happened around 2 or 3 hours ago at fallsview. I am in the SB with KK. Three limpers, I make it $165. UTG gives a little speech and makes it $400 something. Then the guy who limped after him made it $1000 to go. I mucked, and being an idiot flashed my neighbour. Somehow UTG got the dealer to show my cards, claiming that he had seen them so they should be shown (lol), I protested briefly but the dealer just flipped them. UTG then folds, showing queens and the middle player showed aces.

Richard~ · Oct 04,2009, 01:45 PM

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I guess that is ok, it's so marginal and narrow a spot that most people won't ever care though.

syphilaids · Nov 04,2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

I think in one of the Harrington books it mentions you will run into AA with KK about 1 in 20 times. Both of these events are mutually exclusive and you have to take into account there are 10 players at your table. Its really 4.3% chance at a full 10 player table.

lol yeah I must have not slept well that night cause my math is WAYYYYY off. That equation is great if you're playing 2 random cards all the time HU and AI before seeing the cards. 1/20 seems like the correct number, ie 5%.

As for folding KK preflop, I'll retract my statement of never folding. In cash, I won't fold for <150bbs. If I have more then that, I MAY just smooth call and re-evaluate post flop. (given that its heads-up and 4 bets went in preflop). Multiway, im trying to get as much cash in the pot preflop as possible.

I'll fold KK preflop if I'm on the bubble on a satelliete that pays multiple spots, I have a large (say top 3 players) stack, and another larger stack has allready gone in before me. At this point it just isn't worth it even if he has something like KQ. Getting the ticket is allmost a guarantee, as I can float into the bubble by just folding given there is quite a few smaller stacks ready to shove.
THe only exception to this rule I have is if I'm on tilt and the large stack is a nit. Then it would be worth it for me to lose the tournament for a chance to bust this donkey out.