syphilaids

Live 1/2
Villians are complete LAGtarded donks. I watched villian1 ship $175 with 44 pre flop.... And he cold called an all-in.....
villian 2 is same. Calls $25 preflop with Q5s. Puts in $120 by the river on a AAQT2 board.

So both villians limp, and have around $500 each by some miracle.
Button limps

BB (Me) = $450. See TcTh. Raise to $15
both villians call, BU folds

Pot = ~$55
FLOP
9c 6d 7s
Hero bets $35
Both villians insta-call

Pot = ~$160
TURN = Qs
Hero bets $65 ( I know now this is way too small, in the future I'll bet around $90)
Here I figure no one would float with Qx unless they have exactly Q8. I figure its generally a value bet.
V1 folds
V2 insta-calls

Pot = $290
RIVER = 6h
Hero checks
Villian bets $120
Hero ?
I figure I'm generally ahead here. I dont think limp-callers here are slow playing AA-JJ, especially lagtards. Either he has been slowplaying a set all this time, or he has a busted draw. However, would he bet that much if he did have a busted draw?
The hands im ahead of are things like 97, 98, 8J, 88, 87, 78, etc. I lose to 68, 56, 67, 69, 66, 77, 99, Q8, and i'll throw in JJ-AA for the heck of it. It's really hard for me to put him on 2 pair, as I doubt he would flat call the flop or turn with 2 people in the hand. I still put him on a draw, but it's tough. What do you think?

Cerberus

Am I completely out of line for thinking J10s? Villain's a LAGtard right, so he calls w/position to see the flop, figures even if only drawing to a gutshot or possibly backdoor flush, he'll see the turn, then catches open ender and possible flush draw (if it's J10s) and bets his draw. You check the river again, so he figures bet big as you're weak. I think I'm right. Or it's AK and, being a LAGtard, just couldn't fold the damn thing.

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darbday

and since you checked the river i think you just have to call.

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

JtotheLew

I don't think it's out of line at all to think atleast 1 of the 2 would be ahead of your 2nd pair.. You could call here but I personally don't know if I could, V2 has position on you and he's a LAG? Is it not possible instead of flatting he puts the rest of his chips.. ?

Your TT might be good here against 2 bad players, but stuff like AQ,QJ,KQ could show up here a lot with fish (floating with 2 paint cards on a dry low board is a pretty common practice for live fish in my experience).

The cards you're beating though show up more then you lose against one player, just don't know if I could make the call with one behind me. You are getting decent odds to call though, especially if you are confident v2 flats behind you. If he folds you have to win ~30% ? of the time for it to be profitable, and if he calls the $120 you have to win only 22% of the time..

I'm split on this and I think I'd have to be there to decide

What happened?

pokerJAH

big difference between calling and raising

PokerKai

snap call and its not even close. your getting just under 3.5 to 1 on a call and the majority of his holdings include flopped top pair 9s, second pair 7s and missed straight draws. even a pot size bet is call in this spot.

the real question in this hand is if your better off just value betting the river.

syphilaids

I was also wondering this. Is there any point to betting?
I generally think that weaker hands will fold while better hands will call/raise, which makes betting pointless.

I'm putting him on a draw. I've been repping an over pair the whole time. How often does he bluff the river here? It's an awfully big pot. Or how often will he think "OMFG HE CHECKED!!1! HE MUST ONLY HAVE AK!! 89o ALL INNNNNNN!" or something along those lines.
Also how often do I get a call from betting the river? pair of 9s may or may not call, as i have been repping. lower 2 pair may also call. But thats all the hands I really beat. I'm sure a Q would call as well and not raise.

a hand that beats me will raise, such as a 6, full house, or made straight. I really don't like to see a massive reraise on the river here. I'm not really sure whats the right play, but I figured a check was more prudent. Thoughts?

syphilaids

The Q changes nothing. Sure, either of the opponents COULD float with a Q, but they could also float with K4o, AJ, 33 etc. there as well. Given the action, The Q acts like a blank.

Also the board isn't dry at all. It's very wet, anyone with an 8 has a SD.
Very likely that at least one of these players has a pair+SD, and the other, well who knows. Either way, IF I was ahead on the flop, I'm generally ahead now unless they have exactly Q8, so I'm betting here.

The V1 folds and the V2 calls which gets us heads up, and pretty much where I want to stand coming into the river.

Meistro

You don't have to raise this before the flop. You are going to be out of position with a hand that will be difficult to play. Even if you flop the best hand it will be hard to tell and you could easily get bluffed off it. You are going to flop a set around 12% of the time and you will have an overcard on the flop most of the time, with a positional disadvantage as well to over come. I would probably raise here though assuming I had a pretty good idea about what was going on at the table (that is I was reading my opponents well). If you are going to raise I like your raise size.

You hit an amazing flop. I would bet more, $50. Your opponents will probably peel this flop with a fairly wide range of hands. You are strong but vulnerable. The gutshot adds significantly to the potential of your hand, now you have a rare but strong draw as well. If your opponent holds an 8 they will overvalue their draw (they can't hit your two tens).

The turn doesn't bother me in the slightest. q8 got there or AQ but your opponents have very wide ranges and that is not really a very dangerous card. I would bet big again.

On the river, given how you played it, I would snap call unless I felt this player wouldn't try to bluff the river. The more aggro the player, if he is tilting or losing a lot, the more likely you should call. The more passive the more inclined you should be to fold. As a default you can call here but there are really no defaults in poker, just players you are playing against and your insights into their psychologies.