trigs

when do you think it is good to move up to the next level buy-in? do you consider only your bankroll (i.e. i have 20+ buy-ins for a certain level so that's the one i'll play), or do you consider your BB/100 hands (or other winning stats)?

i have the BR to play higher stakes, but as someone who is relatively new to online cash games and is taking it slowly, i feel that i should "earn" my way to the higher buy-ins by winning enough money playing the lower level to move up (i.e. by beating the lower level and not just moving to the highest one i can afford). what are your thoughts on this?

Hobbes

Check out Poker Articles - Basic Bankroll Management

and this Poker Articles - Are You a Bankroll Nit?

Builds on the 1st one

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jdAA88

I would agree that you need to earn your way to the higher limits because if not, you're most likely to not do as well once you move up (i.e. if you win a donkament and use that money to move up). Also, I only consider moving up when I'll have 35 buyins for the next limit and when I feel I'm actually ready (confidence is key!) to play that limit.

trigs

i will surely check out those links now.

35 buy-ins? i guess that's pretty good. i've read that it should be 5% of your total BR at max.

STR82ACE

As a rule, minimum 25bi's required for the next level, but as well as 5000+ hands at a decent bb/hr at the current level. What I mean by decent is around 6 to 8 bb/hr, but that's my own gauge, I'm sure others will have whatever works for them.

The key is the amount of buyins though. I wouldn't move up without a minimum of 20, but I think jda's 35 is also very good as it will give you more confidence before you go up levels. As soon as your bankroll is less than 20bi's, its time to drop down though.

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STR82ACE

For SnG's it might be okay, but I'd still rather stay to a 2% of bankroll. For cash games though, I prefer the buyin gauge.

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ReefAquarium

Really good question!

You're correct. Those are the two biggest factors.

I would also consider the standard deviation of your win rate and your tolerance of risk of ruin.

You're got the right idea.
Drop down a couple levels for sure.
If you find you're killing it then move up.

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Wetts1012

I'll be the one to start the argument.

I do not think BRM can be calculated and applied for certain people.

It is extremely individual dependent.

When BlackmagicZ gets here he will back me up - Im sure of it (I remember that thread sir). There will be others as well.

Fact: I am underolled for the cash games / tournaments I play online, in the traditional sense of buyin per level BRM.

Fact: I play significantly worse at the levels I am actually rolled for. I simply dont care about the money at these levels. So I spew, dont think, stack off light, and ultimately play poorly.

I think true BRM only applies to people who are playing with money that they actually care about losing. The money I use for poker is my recreation money, that I would otherwise blow on useless shit.

If I happen to blow half of my bankroll on a Sunday major, so be it.

I know that the 1 big score I make every 3-4 months will more than cover my buyins. Then I cash ot everything and buy something nice.

Rinse and Repeat.

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jdAA88

Yeah I agree. If you're playing recreationally then sure, go ahead and play underrolled. However, if you're playing poker for your part-time or full-time income, I think proper BRM is absolutely necessary.

Wetts1012

+1..

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trigs

so most people here do think that 25-35+ buy-ins is a good range. those two articles suggest creating a "floor" and a "ceiling" level where if i go up past the ceiling i should consider moving up and if i fall past the floor i should definitely move down. personally, i'm going to go a little more conservative and work between 30-40 buy-ins i think.

i think i will also go with the minimum of 5000+ hands as well before considering moving up a level. is this enough or should i be looking closer to 10,000 hands? (side note: i'm currently at 15.47 BB/100 hands after 4200+ hands played at my current very low level)

DennisG

+1

I can't stand playing games that buy ins are too small..I have zero respect for the game. I truly appreciate, seem to do better at, and most importantly...enjoy the higher levels...I certainly don't have the bankroll for it..but so be it...

That being said, if you are doing this for an income or a living, then yes, I can understand your need for "BR management".

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STR82ACE

Personally, I don't have the necessary excess capital to continually reinvest in the game at the higher levels, and I know that if were to drop a $1000 and start playing NL50 right now, I would quickly lose it, and be forced to reload if I wanted to continue to play.

Bankroll Management allows me to use the small startup I have online, play at the lower levels, (and I whole heartedly agree that it can be a zoo at the lower levels), and build it up as well as my own skill and confidence level to allow me to play NL50 and higher a lot more comfortably.

If I were in a position where I could dump new money online whenever I had to in order to play a specific level, I might do that, but the fact is that proper bankroll management allows me to learn at my own pace, at levels I can feel I'm not jeopardizing my investment, and hopefully grow it enough to play with the bigger boys at the bigger games without getting my ass kicked.

I don't believe it should be only considered when you play for secondary income. It can be used most effectively to provide a player with a tool to enable him to start small with minimum investment, and grow it along with skill and confidence to the level he wants to be at. Starting at $50 and playing .01/.02 NL and growing it slowly to play NL100 or higher is quite an accomplishment and one any player should be proud of being able to do, without the need to reload from his/her own bank account.

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ReefAquarium

Excellent post.

I agree, I might also add if you don't care about the money then you don't need bankroll management.

Most people are losing players ... so they need money management not bankroll management.

ReefAquarium's money management ....add up your net worth plus the amount you can borrow.... divide by how long you expect to live... :-)

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STR82ACE

No WONDER I'm in arrears!!!
I should have died off 35yrs ago!

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But the man who invented the poker chip was a genius!!