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Apr 24,2008, 09:33 AM
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#1 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 60
| Pre-Flop - Mid Pocket Pair and the Reraise?
One situation i find myself in fairly often is im holding a decent pocket pair anywhere from 8,8 to JJ and i raise anywhere from 3x - 10x the big blind depending on position (this is 6 player cash games online). Then i get a reraise from a later player ... I know i should fear being completely dominated by a higher pocket pair... or the the other guy is holding two overcards (which wouldnt be too bad).
My question is would the better play be to reraise his reraise just to catch more validity on his hand? Or call and hope he completely misses the flop?
Any input would be appreciated, thanks!
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Apr 24,2008, 10:14 AM
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#2 | | Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,755
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10x the big blind seems a little excessive IMO for a pre-flop raise with no raise on board. It makes it harder for you to get any information because now when you get reraised you are probably committed if you want to call. I typically raise those type hands in late position (one of last 2 to act before blinds), and call in any other position for the set mine.
One thing I see Daniel Negreanu say quite a bit is try to keep the pot small so you are less likely to be playing for all your chips.
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Apr 24,2008, 10:19 AM
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#3 | | Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,755
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Here is a good video that discusses from early position: | |
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Apr 24,2008, 10:39 AM
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#4 | | Cash games are evil!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,963
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you could always check and if you get raised, it cost you less than a re-raise to see the flop (better in early position). If no one bets, you get to see the flop for cheap and if you hit your trips, your hand is well disguised. If a couple over cards come, you can still get away from the hand for hardly nothing. A lot of players will disagree with this strategy but I am trying to double through a player, not make a few bucks at a time.
In a cash game, a starting pair really only has good strength post-flop if you hit trips. I have checked AA-QQ in early position before and if I don't improve on the flop, I can get away from the hand if it is a dangerous board. I usually raise about 70% of the time with AA-QQ. Good to mix up your play. A couple of weeks ago I checked in early position with QQ, player raised to $7 (1/2 cash game), so I called. Flop came Q78, I checked (hoping for a continuation bet) and this player pushed for $100. Should have seen his reaction when I flipped over the trip queens. I would normally bet with this hand but this guy liked the continuation bet. Didn't expect the push.
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Apr 24,2008, 10:59 AM
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#5 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,823
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Theres enough info in the other 6max threads that you can read about
Anything above 4x raise is just -EV.
Jah, why so tight 70% raise with the top 3 hands? Mixing up play is fine, but I don't think you should overvalue mixing up your play. Majority of players only remember the first few pots you play and you maintain that label for the rest of your session.
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Apr 24,2008, 11:03 AM
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#6 | | #bonking
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Bay, California
Posts: 5,930
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerJAH  you could always check and if you get raised, it cost you less than a re-raise to see the flop (better in early position). If no one bets, you get to see the flop for cheap and if you hit your trips, your hand is well disguised. If a couple over cards come, you can still get away from the hand for hardly nothing. A lot of players will disagree with this strategy but I am trying to double through a player, not make a few bucks at a time.
In a cash game, a starting pair really only has good strength post-flop if you hit trips. I have checked AA-QQ in early position before and if I don't improve on the flop, I can get away from the hand if it is a dangerous board. I usually raise about 70% of the time with AA-QQ. Good to mix up your play. A couple of weeks ago I checked in early position with QQ, player raised to $7 (1/2 cash game), so I called. Flop came Q78, I checked (hoping for a continuation bet) and this player pushed for $100. Should have seen his reaction when I flipped over the trip queens. I would normally bet with this hand but this guy liked the continuation bet. Didn't expect the push. | This isn't really mixing-up your play, it's playing tight-weak poker.
__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.
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Apr 24,2008, 11:05 AM
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#7 | | #bonking
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Bay, California
Posts: 5,930
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Here is a good video that discusses from early position: | Quoting Dutch Boyd and now one of the worst self-proclaimed pro poker players to ever play the game -- I think Graham needs to retool his game.
__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.
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Apr 24,2008, 11:49 AM
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#8 | | Cash games are evil!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,963
| Quote:
Originally Posted by actyper Theres enough info in the other 6max threads that you can read about
Anything above 4x raise is just -EV.
Jah, why so tight 70% raise with the top 3 hands? Mixing up play is fine, but I don't think you should overvalue mixing up your play. Majority of players only remember the first few pots you play and you maintain that label for the rest of your session. | In early position, still have the option to re-raise depending on the player.
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Apr 24,2008, 12:53 PM
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#9 | | Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,755
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Originally Posted by GTA Poker Quoting Dutch Boyd and now one of the worst self-proclaimed pro poker players to ever play the game -- I think Graham needs to retool his game. | Dutch Boyd is hilarious...
How about instead of just trolling you try and post something useful, like why you disagree with something in the video or what you suggest to do that is better?
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Apr 24,2008, 02:00 PM
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#10 | | Official Poker***** Troll
Join Date: May 2006 Location: St. Thomas
Posts: 1,559
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does that green bottle have pee in it?
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Stupid is as Stupid does - Forrest Gump
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Apr 24,2008, 04:40 PM
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#11 | | #bonking
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Bay, California
Posts: 5,930
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haha dutch boyd is great if you like scumbag, angle-shooting, cheating/robbing players...i have no idea how that guy was never stabbed given the number of people he ripped-off
__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.
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Apr 30,2008, 04:05 AM
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#12 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 135
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerJAH A couple of weeks ago I checked in early position with QQ, player raised to $7 (1/2 cash game), so I called. Flop came Q78, I checked (hoping for a continuation bet) and this player pushed for $100. | what kind of fool makes a play like this? pushing $100 into a pot of $14-$17? Even if he has AA he is turning his hand into a bluff. crikey.
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Apr 30,2008, 04:12 PM
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#13 | | Cash games are evil!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,963
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumbaclat what kind of fool makes a play like this? pushing $100 into a pot of $14-$17? Even if he has AA he is turning his hand into a bluff. crikey. | there were probably a couple more players in the hand pre-flop. Still a very bad push, agreed.
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May 02,2008, 09:17 AM
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#14 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 443
| Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerJAH you could always check and if you get raised, it cost you less than a re-raise to see the flop (better in early position). If no one bets, you get to see the flop for cheap and if you hit your trips, your hand is well disguised. If a couple over cards come, you can still get away from the hand for hardly nothing. A lot of players will disagree with this strategy but I am trying to double through a player, not make a few bucks at a time.
In a cash game, a starting pair really only has good strength post-flop if you hit trips. I have checked AA-QQ in early position before and if I don't improve on the flop, I can get away from the hand if it is a dangerous board. I usually raise about 70% of the time with AA-QQ. Good to mix up your play. A couple of weeks ago I checked in early position with QQ, player raised to $7 (1/2 cash game), so I called. Flop came Q78, I checked (hoping for a continuation bet) and this player pushed for $100. Should have seen his reaction when I flipped over the trip queens. I would normally bet with this hand but this guy liked the continuation bet. Didn't expect the push. |
Is this 6-max?
If it is...this is very weak.
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Don't always rely on the numbers.......Do always rely on the feel
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May 02,2008, 10:02 AM
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#15 | | Cash games are evil!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,963
| Quote:
Originally Posted by wader Is this 6-max?
If it is...this is very weak. | nope, full table.
I personally like raising 70% of the time. If you prefer to raise 100% of the time, its a personal choice. Its really situational.
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