River bluff

adpro · Nov 16,2009, 04:03 PM

Hey,

I haven't been on here in a while, but I have been playing a bit of poker still. Doing fairly well, but moved down to lower stakes since I am not able to play as often as I would like.

Either way, this hand really bothered me. Mostly because I felt I should call. However, I just joined this table and I had absolutely no reads on this player.

So, we have...

Seat 1: Bet813 ($4.98 in chips)
Seat 3: melblueeyes ($0.07 in chips)
Seat 4: LittleLizzyB ($3.98 in chips)
Seat 6: adprocas ($8.09 in chips) - This is me!
adprocas: posts small blind $0.01
Bet813: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to adprocas [Ad Qs]
melblueeyes: folds
LittleLizzyB: calls $0.02
adprocas: raises $0.06 to $0.08
Bet813: raises $0.06 to $0.14
LittleLizzyB: folds
adprocas: calls $0.06

*** FLOP *** [6c Ts Qd]
adprocas: bets $0.18
Bet813: calls $0.18

*** TURN *** [6c Ts Qd] [2d]
adprocas: bets $0.32
Bet813: raises $0.96 to $1.28
adprocas: calls $0.96

*** RIVER *** [6c Ts Qd 2d] [9c]
adprocas: checks
Bet813: bets $3.38 and is all-in

Now, I know people on here like to guess what the individual in question had, but I'll say I folded and he showed KTos.

So, my question is, should I have called that huge river bet?

I figured the 9 gave him a straight, or that he had KJ (re-raised his straight draw - I like doing this, as often people fold top pair in this spot, which is why I called - usually I only do it at higher stakes, though), Q9 or QT or something. I figured he at least had two paint cards, or >=AT. Would that be an accurate range for this type of playing?

I have to say he played it well, if he knew exactly what I had. Did I give too much away? I feel I didn't. Should I have called that turn bet?

At these stakes, should I be risking that much against a random player pushing?

That was basically a pot sized bet. I felt I wasn't winning 50% of the time. Looking back, maybe a turn fold would have been best.

Thoughts?

MickeyHoldem · Nov 16,2009, 04:29 PM

As played I call!

The turn raise, and river overbet make no sense in terms of extracting value for him with a made hand! Bluff way more often than not.

Personally, I lead for more on the flop and turn. Your turn bet looks very weak, and maybe he thought he could exploit it! TPTK needs to played a little bigger!

I liked his min 3-bet preflop? WTF??!

adpro · Nov 16,2009, 05:22 PM

I used to always make a pot sized bet on a board like this - especially with a possible straight draw out there. I like making sure when they do call, they are not calling profitably. In this situation, if he had a straight draw, calling 0.18 is about 37% of the pot (0.48 after my bet) if I am not mistaken. So, anyone who calls there is making a call that is not profitable (assuming a straight draw - open ender of course). If I bet half, they will likely fold with straight draws or middle pair.

I figured the re-min-raise was either weak or huge. I have seen people play A's like this at this level. So, I didn't know what to put him on then.

If I play this back in my head, at these stakes, I could see KK or AA playing the hand like this. I've called too much off on large bets with medium-strongish hands. At these stakes, it feels like people aren't smart enough to over-bet their hands in hopes of getting people to fold. I could see people doing this with the nuts, or with a stronger hand than TPTK - like K's or A's.

I will also sometimes re-pop if I feel the guy is weak when I have a straight draw. If I called that flop bet, I will sometimes re-raise the turn if I feel I am going to get a fold a good amount of the time. When they call and I hit, I get a huge pot. If I don't hit, I see what they do and go from there. So, his play kind of fits the straight draw thoughts of my own. It also seems to make calling more on the flop profitable, as the pot ends up HUGE when the straight is made, and the amount gained on the successful turn bluff makes up for the 'incorrect' calls. Of course, I only do this when I know a bit about a player and their actions - I don't just randomly do this with every open ended straight draw.

At these stakes, people think "I have to bet huge and hopefully they call". They don't really think "what do I bet to get them to call?".

That's probably why I only bet just over half pot on the flop. I wanted a call. I feel too many people fold here to a pot sized bet.

Am I giving people too much credit?

syphilaids · Nov 27,2009, 02:29 PM

Here's the thing. If you think you're good on the turn, good enough to call a 2bet, then you have to call the river bet. You checked to induce a bluff, he bluffed, and you folded. A SD is pretty unlikely. Reraising the turn on a draw when you have enough odds to just call makes no sense.

BBC Z · Nov 27,2009, 02:53 PM

If you want to make things a little easier on yourself, think about leading into him on the river. Instead of having to deal with huge over-bet pushes, you'll probably scare him into calling with a weaker hand or he'll just shut down his bluff. Say like around a buck on the river.