Drawing Hands

Thread: Drawing Hands

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  1. #1
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    Drawing Hands

    Flush or open ended straight draws, what do you do?

  2. #2
    Official pilot of CPF JohnnieH's Avatar
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    In fixed limit? It depends on the situation, but I think you should:

    RAISE!
    LONG LIVE ZSA ZSA GABOR!

  3. #3
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    do the number of players matter? cap the betting?

    and what if you miss? keep raising on the turn? fold the river?

  4. #4
    It's phonetic! DrTyore's Avatar
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    Not enough information

    It's situation specific.

    # players
    Type of game (PL, NL, FL)
    Feel of game (loose, passive, aggressive, tight)
    Size of Pot
    Quality of draw
    Position
    Type of players
    Image

    and on and on

    Mark
    October 27tth, 2014 - Sanity returns to PFC

  5. #5
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    I just want an easy answer

  6. #6
    Tilting for 5 years!! STR82ACE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    I just want an easy answer
    In THIS game? No such thing.
    So much is dependant on the things Mark has outlined. Could be a different answer every time you are drawing.
    The man who invented poker was bright.
    But the man who invented the poker chip was a genius!!

  7. #7
    for flush draws, i usually try to draw out for real cheap and then try to get my opponent to stack off when i have the nuts. i play a similar strategy for playing straight draws.

  8. #8
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    ^I'm in the limit forum

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by darbday View Post
    for flush draws, i usually try to draw out for real cheap and then try to get my opponent to spew off when i have the nuts. i play a similar strategy for playing straight draws.
    fmp

  10. #10
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    in multiway pots with high flush draws or SD drawing to the nuts, I'm raising and capping flop.
    If you get 2 players coming along its just pure value betting
    Also, especially if you're in position, you might get a free check on the turn after you've shown aggression on the flop. Villian(s) might cave and give you a free card if you miss, which is exactly what you want.
    If he bets the turn however, i'm just flatting.

  11. #11
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    ^thanks

  12. #12
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    as far as a short and sweet answer goes,

    Before anything, make sure that if you were to hit your draw, you would have the winning hand. Furthermore, only pay for your draws what the pot odds dictate you should be paying.

    And for a more thorough answer:

    If there are many players in you may consider juicing the pot. However, this only adds variance to your results and lacks deception to your hand - especially if you have called a bet and then raised. In most scenerios this screams draw, but so does check-calling. It's ok though, it's limit, and multiway pots play fairly straightforward as there's not a lot of room to maneuver. You've either got it or you don't.

    In shorthanded or heads-up pots (tight full ring games, 6max tables, Heads-Up tables), advanced concepts begin to take hold. Now you have the ability to induce folds by being creative with your lines of action, or by betting on scare cards that may fall on the turn or river, or by hitting extra outs such as two-overs along with your flush draw. For example, in a heads-up match you may consider check-raising all flops where u have double backdoor draws to get paid hansomly when you make a big hand, but this also allows you to bluff at having a pair to induce a fold, and allow yourself to take hold of the pot by driving the betting and still leave yourself extra outs to hit a pair which will probably be good most of the time. (Remember this is a heads-up match example).

    Some things not to do:

    Lead the betting with draws: I see this everyday and it is so easy to read, especially when it's done by players who never lead out with top pair or a good hand anyway. I generally smack these types of players around pretty good. They think they're being deceptive but in their attempt to look deceptive they reveal their true intentions...how? because they are 'trying' to be deceptive rofl. In full ring limit, the best plays are to just bet your hand, that's going to bring home the money, especially when someone makes 2nd best and you can 3bet them all the way home.

    Chase draws that are too expensive: Any poker book will give you a good example.

    Chase draws where you might not even be good: You're holding T8 and the flop comes JT9. You may already be losing to KQ, Q8...if a Q falls you're probably losing to ANYone holding a K. Lots of examples like these. Don't even throw in one bet, it will just cost you more. If there a lots of people in and an 8 falls, now you're going to chase a boat where again, you might not even be good.

    Some things to do:

    Raise with big draws: You're holding JQ and the board in T92. K or an 8 will give you the straight, but maybe a Q or a J will be enough to win you the pot.

    Raise for free cards: If you're last to act, or around next to last, you can raise hoping that your opponents will check to you on the next street where you can check yourself if you miss and gain a free river. Keep in mind it's only a good idea to do this when the board isn't draw-heavy and you are certain that you will not be re-raised on the flop. If you are re-raised, consider capping, only if you think they will check the turn to you.

    One more advanced concept: If you're in a heads-up pot and in position on the turn facing a bet, and you plan on calling the river bet, but you still have extra outs to make a really big hand...consider raising the turn and checking the river if you don't improve, and betting if you do. This has a lot of benefits - you may have uncovered a bluff and get your opponent to fold on the turn / you're spending the same amount of money but allowing yourself to make more if you hit your draw / you may be able to bluff at a scare river card and get your opponent to fold the best hand.

    Example: You're holding ATh and the board is AJ5 with two hearts. Turn is a brick and you're opponent bets. After you or your opponent 3bet the flop, you don't know where you're at so you decide to call him down. Well just raise the turn and check rvr, unless a heart falls and you can bet your flush.
    Last edited by redoak181; Jun 11,2010 at 06:43 PM.

  13. #13
    Full PFC Member Joker's Avatar
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    ^that's what I was looking for. thanks for the help

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