Limit Hand for discussion

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  1. #1
    It's phonetic! DrTyore's Avatar
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    Limit Hand for discussion

    Full Tilt Poker Game #19089836863: Table Bentley - $0.50/$1 - Limit Hold'em - 21:47:46 ET - 2010/03/08
    Seat 1: crouchingtiger0 ($50)
    Seat 2: DrTyore ($14.75)
    Seat 3: ATrask ($33.20)
    Seat 4: BitterDan ($16.50)
    Seat 5: jimmey932 ($7.10)
    Seat 6: VIVISectVI ($23.95)
    Seat 7: Little_Abner ($9.80)
    Seat 8: kokokat ($25.90)
    Seat 9: Boldrocket ($19.75)
    BitterDan posts the small blind of $0.25
    jimmey932 posts the big blind of $0.50
    The button is in seat #3
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DrTyore [7s 8s]
    VIVISectVI folds
    Little_Abner folds
    kokokat calls $0.50
    Boldrocket folds
    crouchingtiger0 raises to $1
    DrTyore calls $1
    ATrask folds
    BitterDan calls $0.75
    jimmey932 raises to $1.50
    kokokat calls $1
    crouchingtiger0 calls $0.50
    DrTyore raises to $2
    BitterDan folds
    jimmey932 calls $0.50
    kokokat calls $0.50
    crouchingtiger0 calls $0.50
    *** FLOP *** [9c 8h 7d]
    jimmey932 checks
    kokokat bets $0.50
    crouchingtiger0 calls $0.50
    DrTyore raises to $1
    jimmey932 calls $1
    kokokat calls $0.50
    crouchingtiger0 calls $0.50
    *** TURN *** [9c 8h 7d] [4c]
    jimmey932 checks
    kokokat checks
    crouchingtiger0 checks
    DrTyore bets $1
    jimmey932 calls $1
    kokokat calls $1
    crouchingtiger0 calls $1
    *** RIVER *** [9c 8h 7d 4c] [4s]
    jimmey932 checks
    kokokat checks
    crouchingtiger0 checks
    DrTyore checks
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    DrTyore shows [7s 8s] two pair, Eights and Sevens
    jimmey932 mucks
    kokokat shows [9s Ts] two pair, Nines and Fours
    crouchingtiger0 mucks
    kokokat wins the pot ($16.50) with two pair, Nines and Fours
    jimmey932 adds $5
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $17 | Rake $0.50
    Board: [9c 8h 7d 4c 4s]
    Seat 1: crouchingtiger0 mucked [Ks Td] - a pair of Fours
    Seat 2: DrTyore showed [7s 8s] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
    Seat 3: ATrask (button) didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 4: BitterDan (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 5: jimmey932 (big blind) mucked [Kc Jh] - a pair of Fours
    Seat 6: VIVISectVI didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 7: Little_Abner didn't bet (folded)
    Seat 8: kokokat showed [9s Ts] and won ($16.50) with two pair, Nines and Fours
    Seat 9: Boldrocket didn't bet (folded)
    Last edited by DrTyore; Mar 09,2010 at 12:28 PM.
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  2. #2
    Why did you call then cap pre?

    Bet the river, anything beating you would have raised your turn bet.

  3. #3
    It's phonetic! DrTyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by actyper View Post
    Why did you call then cap pre?

    Bet the river, anything beating you would have raised your turn bet.
    Actually..

    I was the one to cap it pre-flop, and despite everyone's insistence that it's because it's my favorite hand, it's actually a play from "Hold 'em for Advanced Players" by Sklansky / Malmouth. If you've a hand that plays well multi-way, may as well cap it, especially if you've good position. I figure if I hit a draw, I've swelled the pot to justify my calls.

    Mark
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  4. #4
    It's phonetic! DrTyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by actyper View Post
    Why did you call then cap pre?

    Bet the river, anything beating you would have raised your turn bet.

    Oh, and I HIGHLY disagree with your saying bet the river... I have middle two pair on a paired board that went mutli-way capped preflop. You see the problem right?

    Mark
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  5. #5
    alces alces moose's Avatar
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    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to DrTyore [7s 8s]
    VIVISectVI folds
    Little_Abner folds
    kokokat calls $0.50
    Boldrocket folds
    crouchingtiger0 raises to $1
    DrTyore FOLDS

    and what did pokertracker show for the other two guys?
    Last edited by moose; Mar 09,2010 at 01:16 PM.
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  6. #6
    $$$ GTA Poker's Avatar
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    fold to the raise pre there is still lots of action behind you
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  7. #7
    tu ne cede malis Big Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTyore View Post
    Oh, and I HIGHLY disagree with your saying bet the river... I have middle two pair on a paired board that went mutli-way capped preflop. You see the problem right?

    Mark
    Yeah, but you capped it, so a big pocket pair isn't guaranteed. I think I'm betting the river anyway, folding to a raise, obviously.
    It's at least possible you're up against a QTo, or AcKc type hand by either of them so I'm not folding to one bet in a pot that big.

    Also, imo you shouldn't cold call with 78s after only one limp and raiser, I'm pretty sure that's -ev.

  8. #8
    tu ne cede malis Big Mike's Avatar
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    Ok, saw the results now. The river getting checked through was obviously nice. Tough break, but you did have to dodge 15 cards going to the river.

    The only discussion I see about this hand should be with your preflop play. Cold-calling sucks. 3bet or get out.

  9. #9

    What's your cold call range?

    Preflop, I almost never cold call.
    If someone raises, I fold or 3bet.


    Even in late position...

    My cold call range is tiny...
    Late position I might cold call with AQs, KQs. and a few other high suited broadways.

    But you wouldn't have much of a leak if you cold called just once a week.

    What's your cold call range? (early middle late)
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  10. #10
    It's phonetic! DrTyore's Avatar
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    Good question...

    I've never really labeled a range for CC'ing.... I like suited connectors obviously, as low as 56 up to TJ, and maybe KQ. The occasional suited gapper I'll call with too. Depending on the villain, I may loosen that up or tighten that up. I usually fold the danger hands like KJ, and crappier ones (KT, Q9, etc).

    Mark
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  11. #11
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    I relaly dont mind the cold call if the table has been loose and you're pretty sure it'll be a multiway pot. After a limper and a raise i'd cold call as It will be at least a 3way pot.

    Cappign the flop is questionable but I don't mind it. It just looks donk, but you have a good point, your hand plays well multi way.

    Other then that I think you played fine. River sucks, and 9pair is never folding to 1 bb so just save yourself the cash and pray everyone has a sole T.

    I really don't know why 9T doesn't cap this flop here, he has lots of outs and only really behind a made straight or set. Given all the weakness shown by everyone except hero I cap all day here.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTyore View Post
    Good question...

    I've never really labeled a range for CC'ing.... I like suited connectors obviously, as low as 56 up to TJ, and maybe KQ. The occasional suited gapper I'll call with too. Depending on the villain, I may loosen that up or tighten that up. I usually fold the danger hands like KJ, and crappier ones (KT, Q9, etc).

    Mark
    This is *way* too loose a range to cold call...

    Unless you have a huge advantage in postflop skill over your opponents you should not be cold calling much more than AQs, KQs etc...
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTyore View Post
    Good question...

    I've never really labeled a range for CC'ing.... I like suited connectors obviously, as low as 56 up to TJ, and maybe KQ. The occasional suited gapper I'll call with too. Depending on the villain, I may loosen that up or tighten that up. I usually fold the danger hands like KJ, and crappier ones (KT, Q9, etc).

    Mark

    Personally, I think cold calling is evil.. don't do it.
    This is *way* too loose a range to cold call...

    Unless you have a huge advantage in postflop skill over your opponents you should not be cold calling much more than AQs, KQs etc... If I'm feeling wild I might cold call with AJs, QJs
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  14. #14
    $$$ GTA Poker's Avatar
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    Making money in full ring limit is all about understanding hand values preflop. Cold calling with this hand in this position is a terrible play, period.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GTA Poker View Post
    Making money in full ring limit is all about understanding hand values preflop. Cold calling with this hand in this position is a terrible play, period.
    is it really called cold calling when he raises? and when you say 'in this position' hes actually in the best position in the hand.

    i'm fine with it, not a limit player, but with a big pot you stand to make some money on certain boards. its likely most of the others are holding high cards, so you just have to be able to laydown top pair, or 2nd pair post flop. 2 pair is a good flop but not ideal. i may have checked the turn but im a nl player so im guessing for limit. i do think though, or assume that many intermediate players over play suited connectors, just a theory.

    They had a lot of outs but you got to see a large pot for fairly cheap with a good shot

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