What to do when card dead

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  1. #1
    Full PFC Member SuitedPair's Avatar
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    What to do when card dead

    Just had a 4 hour session at the CNE and in that entire time I had 3 hands that would be considered playable by the standard pre-flop tables considering position and action ahead of my play.

    (5-10, first table was loooooose passive, second was slightly loose aggressive with one guy raising 90% of hands)

    When I did get in with hands outside this range (yes, raising) I was constantly called down by 3-4 players and never hit the flop. Attacking the scary and non-scary boards did nothing to drive players away. I was playing fairly tight so I thought that I would get some respect on the plays but that wasn't the case. So I pissed away chips.

    Have had only winning sessions there over the past two weeks so I want to chalk it up to the shite side of variance.

    Is there any way to play that is profitable when you just are not getting the cards? Should I still be trying to run over the table or just tighten up and be bored out of my skull for 4 hours.......


    _(and yes I know limit is the devil.....)

  2. #2
    $$$ GTA Poker's Avatar
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    No, not in the CNE games. You will have losing sessions and your goal is to lose the least possible during them. Don't make crazy moves, etc at these games and value bet at every chance with made hands. That being said, you probably have spots with hands that are playable vs certain players and in certain situations that you are missing (like playing suited connectors for several bets preflop in MP when the table is constantly having 4-5 players per flop). However, if you aren't an experinced limit player and want to limit the variance then I would simply fold and realize that 4 hours is not a long session. Be happy if you lost the minimum and realize that 1 decent pot next time out will more than make up for your entire session.
    $$$

  3. #3
    Full PFC Member SuitedPair's Avatar
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    Good advice. thank you,

  4. #4
    Full PFC Member Buddha's Avatar
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    Not sure what CNE stands for... but it reminds me of the first couple of times I played poker in Orillia... before they had NL. The game was $2/$5 and every hand at least 3-4 people would see a flop (raised pot or not). Most hands, 6-8 people would see a flop.

    I lost alot of money... raising with AA, KK, AK, all the premium hands... only to see them get cracked. That's when I realized that these hands play well heads up - not in a multi-way pot!

    In a loose passive game, you want to play starting hands that have monster potential. Even with AA, I'd simply limp. Normally, you raise to narrow the field (or build a pot), but you won't narrow the field - everyone will call your raise and then they'll have pot odds to chase their draw. For example, in the 2/5 game, if 4 people call the $5 raise, there's $20 in the pot on the flop. The flop comes rainbow rags, so you lead with a $2 bet... nobody is going to fold to a $2 bet with $20 in the pot... not these types of players.

    Anyways... multi-way pot hands (for me) include suited connectors, 2 face cards (K-Q, K-J - preferably suited), A-x suited, pocket pairs (to flop a set.) If the flop matches your hand - great. Even if you're behind, you'll probably have the odds to check-call and chase your draw. If you completely miss the flop, dump the hand.

    Your variance will be higher... because you'll probably play more hands than usual and win fewer pots... but when you do win a pot, it'll be worth it because you'll get paid.

    Don't ever try to bully this type of table - you can't bluff a calling station!
    "Poker is a game of people played with cards, not a game of cards played with people." - Tom McEvoy

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post

    Don't ever try to bully this type of table - you can't bluff a calling station!
    This is true and very common in SSLHE live games. If you got 3 to the flop, value bet/raise your hands, check your air. Position really is everything in these games. If you're the pre-flop raiser with great late position you often will get a free turn. If someone bets and you miss, you can be sure you're beat and comfortably fold. WAY too often people will call a flop bet to go runner runner. You really can cash in on this, but not in multi-way pots when everyone is going to call you.

    That being said, variance will be higher with more people in the pot so allways raise your big draws and big hands. You can usually be sure that lmost people will call but hey that's poker.

    I once played a kill pot where I was the button. Looking down at 22 I limped in after 8 people called! I was getting my odds to set mine perfectly. sure enough the flop comes 952 rainbow. For reasons I still don't understand the flop got capped (me raising the whole way of course) and by the turn there were still 6 players (myself included) to the turn.
    The turn was a 5h putting a fd on the board. The SB bets, BB raises, 3 calls, I raise, and SB folds showing (Qs9s) and teh BB calls with everyone else. The river is a 9. I almost puke. The bb bets out and everyone folds to me. Given i had something like 15-1 odds or something I had to call to make sure she didnt have an A high fd. Of course she shows the (9d4c). Yup. Good ol' live poker.

  6. #6
    Full PFC Member Buddha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syphilaids View Post
    Of course she shows the (9d4c).
    And I'm sure if someone razzed him for staying in the hand he would have said, "Well I flopped top pair!!!"
    "Poker is a game of people played with cards, not a game of cards played with people." - Tom McEvoy

  7. #7
    Full PFC Member BuyinBank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTA Poker View Post
    No, not in the CNE games. You will have losing sessions and your goal is to lose the least possible during them. Don't make crazy moves, etc at these games and value bet at every chance with made hands. That being said, you probably have spots with hands that are playable vs certain players and in certain situations that you are missing (like playing suited connectors for several bets preflop in MP when the table is constantly having 4-5 players per flop). However, if you aren't an experinced limit player and want to limit the variance then I would simply fold and realize that 4 hours is not a long session. Be happy if you lost the minimum and realize that 1 decent pot next time out will more than make up for your entire session.
    Excellent advice.

    EDIT - Buddha, yours was great too....felt bad for leaving you out.

  8. #8
    Full PFC Member SuitedPair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Not sure what CNE stands for...

    Don't ever try to bully this type of table - you can't bluff a calling station!
    Canadian National Exhibition - The Ex


    Very true. no point in trying to bluff when it won't work. just pissing chips for sure.....I should have taken a book to read so that I didn't get so damn board. I picked up on a lot of the tendencies of the players in the game but never had a chance to do anything about it.....



    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Anyways... multi-way pot hands (for me) include suited connectors, 2 face cards (K-Q, K-J - preferably suited), A-x suited, pocket pairs (to flop a set.) If the flop matches your hand - great. Even if you're behind, you'll probably have the odds to check-call and chase your draw. If you completely miss the flop, dump the hand.
    yup was playing these when there was a lot of action ahead or if I suspected a bunch of callers. never connected. That's where the chips went mostly.

    time to stop the whining for sure.

    Thanks all.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    In a loose passive game, you want to play starting hands that have monster potential. Even with AA, I'd simply limp. Normally, you raise to narrow the field (or build a pot), but you won't narrow the field - everyone will call your raise and then they'll have pot odds to chase their draw. !
    I don't see how limping with monsters preflop (esp. at the EX) can be a profitable play. You have to thin the field as much as you can by raising and relying on your post flop skills to pump or dump. Fishes at the EX are not going be caring about pot odds if they have a draw. They will probably call no matter what. You either win a larger pot with them missing their draw or check/fold or check/call behind when they hit and lose a smaller pot.

    But I do agree to try and hit monsters with hands in your outer ranges for as cheap as possible, is probably the best way to play these games.

  10. #10
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    another thing to do when card dead is take frequent breaks or play games on your iphone. Just dont tilt.

  11. #11
    Full PFC Member SuitedPair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syphilaids View Post
    another thing to do when card dead is take frequent breaks or play games on your iphone. Just dont tilt.
    This. sage words.

  12. #12
    Full PFC Member SuitedPair's Avatar
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    Reiterate, don't tilt.

    played a good long session there yesterday (Long for my experience, about 11 hours by the time I left)

    Was up well early on when the dealer messed up and shipped my second card to the guy to my left, I called it out immediately but she didn't understand what I was saying....and kept dealing around. Even after showing her I had only one card she didn't get it at all. just looked totally bewildered. Finally she chucks me another card. Should have called the floor as I have no idea what the rule is there but I thought I would just play on.

    Long story short I got a 3 to go along with my jack in early position and I muck. Jack hits the board. Guy who got my card shows me I would have had a pair of the bastards to hit the set. Pot goes to about $120 so I miss out on that cash and just start to steam. I don't really lay into the dealer as people make mistakes and those cards could have been any two cards but I was totally pissed. Especially when I had just defended the quality of the dealers to some douche that was saying there were all shit. Some are some aren't.

    So I over play AJ suited the next hand and drop $50, fuck up suited connectors by folding when I should have called ($20 of mine already in) before I realize I need to take walk. came back was still steaming lost a whole lot more chips and for what........the dealer made a mistake, shit happens, move on.

    By the time I left I was back up a good bit but it should/could have been so much more if I had just been able to stay away from the tilt monster.

    /rant.

    sorry for the bitchfest, hope some other noobs can learn from my donkey mistakes.

    Can take away though that my live play when not tilting has improved quite a bit lately.

    Cheers,

  13. #13
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    Spend the time studying your opponents play, preparing for the time you will get into a pot with them. The thing about poker is how you lose is more important than how you win. You need to lose with grace or élan. Lose with a smile on your face and joy in your thoughts. You are entitled to anything, all you can do is make sure the money goes in good and make the best decisions a human being can make. Be perfect and flawless in everyway, and never accept anything but the best from yourself.

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