PLO big draw

Thread: PLO big draw

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  1. #1
    Full PFC Member trigs's Avatar
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    May 2009

    PLO big draw

    i know it's only micro limits but i still wanted to post this hand and get some comments. i like to bum around while i'm exercising sometimes, and this hand was bothering me later.

    my best read on villain on the button is that he is loose passive pretty much calling preflop almost all the time and check/folding if he misses.

    PokerStars Omaha Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) T
    able 'Solstice IV' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
    Seat 1: SB ($7.30 in chips)
    Seat 2: BB ($7.15 in chips)
    Seat 3: HERO ($6 in chips)
    Seat 4: HJ ($7.72 in chips)
    Seat 5: CO ($5.19 in chips)
    Seat 6: BUTTON ($6.31 in chips)
    SB: posts small blind $0.02
    BB: posts big blind $0.05
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to HERO [9h Th Qd Ah]
    HERO: raises $0.12 to $0.17
    HJ: folds
    CO: calls $0.17
    BUTTON: calls $0.17
    SB: calls $0.15
    BB: folds
    *** FLOP *** [8s Jh Kd]

    flop gives me a wrap draw with any A, Q, T, and 7 for the nut straight and a backdoor heart nut flush draw, so i cbet.

    SB: checks
    HERO: bets $0.60
    CO: folds
    BUTTON: calls $0.60
    SB: folds
    *** TURN *** [8s Jh Kd] [2h]

    turn brings a heart giving me even more outs to the nut flush. here is where i think i mess it up with the check. at the time, i thought that the loose passive villain who called the flop would only be calling if he had a decent hand. hence, i checked hoping he'd think i was just cbetting and then giving up on the turn.

    with so many outs but no made hand yet, i think the best play was to bet again though.

    HERO: checks
    BUTTON: checks
    *** RIVER *** [8s Jh Kd 2h] [Jd]

    river bricks all my draws. if i check i can't see villain checking behind so i try to make a move to rep a J. probably not a good move but a check is just the same as a fold here i think. at least, if i'm him i'm betting that river even with nothing after a check.

    HERO: bets $0.90
    BUTTON: raises $3.65 to $4.55
    HERO: folds
    Uncalled bet ($3.65) returned to BUTTON
    BUTTON collected $3.58 from pot

    his big river raise makes me think he's hit the boat but would he really just check/call with KJ or J8 after flopping two pair? maybe he's holding J2 as well but i doubt it. in any case, i had A high so even if he's bluffing this river I can't call it. also, if he flopped a set, i don't see him just check/calling on that board and checking the turn.

    i'd like to hear some thoughts on how i played this hand, thanks.
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  2. #2
    Nothing in Life is Free payperview's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    Where good things grow
    IMO, I think you played the hand good until you check the turn. You get so much more equity when you turn the flush draw and at that point you decide to stop building the pot.

    Trying to put him on a range of hands would involve combos of KJ, K8, J8. Its also quite possible he held a hand holding 9T in it giving him an opened ended straight draw. I also believe if he has a set he would push. With the river bricking your are unfortunate. With a bet/fold what were your trying to rep? If you had all your draws missed someone had to have a made hand unless he held 679T and he bluffed you.
    Your attitude, almost always determines your altitude in life"

  3. #3
    Full PFC Member chaimr1924's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
    North York
    At these limits why worry about your play

  4. #4
    Full PFC Member SeekTheGrail's Avatar
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    Sep 2006
    Likely the button had something like 8-T-J-Q for bottom 2 and a straight draw on the flop that they would check the turn with then raise the river when he fills.

    FYI you would rather be against top set with no shared straight outs i.e. K-K-4-5 (50% equity) than 8-T-J-Q (40% equity) on the turn for what it's worth.

    I would of bet pot on the turn as you might fold out something like 8-9-T-J with no hearts or get your stack in with good equity against a set.

    As played I also don't mind your 1/2 pot bet on the end as you can't just give up as you likely get a fold from something like Q-Q-T-9 more than 33% of the time.

  5. #5
    Administrator compuease's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    Milton, poker capital of the world.. after Wloo that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by chaimr1924 View Post
    At these limits why worry about your play
    An ev decision is an ev decision no matter what the stakes..... Otherwise you are the fish and a contributor to the poker economy...
    If someone doesn't hate you, you're a wimp... comp: circa 2012.. and now 2013 as well, quite likely continuing into 2014, Now confirmed as CONTINUING well into 2014. Ah, f'it, 2015's just more of the same..

  6. #6
    alces alces moose's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
    I haven't checked the equity with a calculator but I assume Steve did and it is accurate. Personally I check the turn in these situations. I'm not playing for stacks with one card to come and at best a flip in equity, which goes only down if he shares some of my outs.

    I happily get it in on the flop but I check for pot control on the turn. If he has top set he gets it in for stacks if you pot the turn and yet you may get a small bet in for value on the river if you make. In general if someone calls the flop, they will call the turn also so you will not likely have gotten him to fold if you had bet.

    I think the important thing to remember about this hand is you are oop and you should play much more cautiously then you would if you were in position. Oop I check fold the river when I miss, you've controlled the pot and it is not worth stabbing at.

    Missing a huge draw sucks but in the end it is just a busted draw with a smallish pot. If the pot was bigger preflop and I could jam the turn first by going pot pot then I would. Otherwise I think betting turn/river oop is just spewy.
    Last edited by moose; Apr 10,2015 at 01:39 AM.

  7. #7
    Full PFC Member trigs's Avatar
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    May 2009
    thanks for the comments guys. something for me to think about.
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