plo river value situation

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  1. #1
    Full PFC Member trigs's Avatar
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    plo river value situation

    i'll rehash the specific hand that got me thinking about this:

    EDIT: important details i forgot to mention: this is 6 max and hero and villain each start the hand with around $29 (villain slightly covering hero).

    i'm on button playing very tight so far in a $.10-$.25 game. BB is probably tighter than me and hasn't played a hand yet. SB is...an idiot. not sure if he knows how to play to be honest. he's been playing an average amount of pots but he'll sometimes get crazy aggressive and show down top pair or something like that.

    i'm dealt Ah7h9d5d and raise the pot. SB calls. BB folds. pot is $1.95.

    flop comes Qc8h6s. SB checks. i decide to cbet my OESD $1.50. SB calls. pot is $4.95. i kind of get the feeling that villain thinks i'm just trying to steal the pot.

    turn is 5s giving me the nuts and putting two spades on the board. SB checks again. i bet $4.75 and SB quickly calls. the pot is $14.43. what do you think we can put villain on here? straight draw? picked up a flush draw on the turn also perhaps? is it possible to consider flopped or turned trips?

    river pairs the board with a 6d. SB checks again. hero?

    how would you play this river? should i be looking for a value bet here? or am i sigh/checking on the paired board?
    Last edited by trigs; Jan 08,2014 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #2
    $$$ GTA Poker's Avatar
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    It depends how deep (effective) you are since this will also dictate how most players would have played previous streets vs you...and you don't just have an oesd on the flop. If this is 6max you should eventually learn how to open up your game once you are winning regularly playing tight.
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  3. #3
    UTG with rags holychow's Avatar
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    Check it down since betting is only going to get you in trouble. If the SB didn't make a hand then you're not going to get any value and if he filled up then you're going to be facing a check-raise that's going to put you in a tough spot.

  4. #4
    Full PFC Member trigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTA Poker View Post
    It depends how deep (effective) you are since this will also dictate how most players would have played previous streets vs you
    shit, sorry, i meant to put in stack sizes as well. just forgot.

    we both started the hand with about the same, around $29. he had me slightly covered. so by river action, we each have around $22 behind.

    ...and you don't just have an oesd on the flop.
    wat?

    EDIT: ah...i missed the 'just'.

    If this is 6max you should eventually learn how to open up your game once you are winning regularly playing tight.
    yes, that's one of the things that got me into the omaha lately. so much more action and aggression to be had.

    i've been trying to cut my teeth on omaha 4 tabling $0.05-$0.10 6 max. for this specific hand though, i wandered up a couple levels and just sat at one table for a bit. i only played about 100 hands just to kind of test the waters. that's why i was generally playing tighter than i normally do as i'm not adequately rolled for that level.

    EDIT: maybe i should also add that i was just playing on my smartphone while watching a movie that i wasn't too interested in
    Last edited by trigs; Jan 08,2014 at 12:21 PM.

  5. #5
    Full PFC Member trigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holychow View Post
    Check it down since betting is only going to get you in trouble. If the SB didn't make a hand then you're not going to get any value and if he filled up then you're going to be facing a check-raise that's going to put you in a tough spot.
    yes, that was kind of my thinking in this position. i had bet every street giving villain the opportunity to sit back and let me build the pot for him if he did in fact have a good hand. facing a check/raise on the river would be a very difficult decision i think.

    however, against this specific villain, calling a river check/raise in this position is probably +EV i think based on his previous spewage. my one main concern was that villain had been leading out and raising previous, but in this hand he was just check calling all the way, so i was debating whether that was suggesting more strength in his holdings.

  6. #6
    alces alces moose's Avatar
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    I think it depends if you feel your wild player is willing to check an underfull to you on the river. Most players at that level have a hard time checking the nut boat on the river after calling all the previous streets and finally making their hand. Unfortunately there is not much else on this board that you beat and calls you.

    I think the value in betting is not going to showdown, otherwise thinking players will start to bluff you when they see that you checked behind with the nut straight on a paired board. I would probably bet 1/2 to 2/3 the pot. $7-$10.
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  7. #7
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    I don't play omaha but i know the basics. Yet from your description of villain, he is willing to gamble and hero call.. I think you can still bet somewhere around 60% you can get a call from 2 pair.. My read would be he has a good show down hand (like two pair) and wants to get to showdown..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sn1perb0y View Post
    I don't play omaha but i know the basics. Yet from your description of villain, he is willing to gamble and hero call.. I think you can still bet somewhere around 60% you can get a call from 2 pair.. My read would be he has a good show down hand (like two pair) and wants to get to showdown..
    If you are calling with less than 2 pair on that board you are kind of sad.
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  9. #9
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    It is veryyyy rare for someone to c/r bluff the river at this limit...I am betting for value and folding to a raise. Online, I am betting just less than half the pot to try and get a call from a queen, kings or aces...around $7 or so sounds right. I really don't put aces too strong in his range the way the hand has been played.

    Very few players are SO bad to call a large bet on the river when they are behind in this spot. You really want to induce a crying call. Even if you had just AA you overtook most of his range on the river.
    Last edited by GTA Poker; Jan 08,2014 at 03:59 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTA Poker View Post
    If you are calling with less than 2 pair on that board you are kind of sad.
    I meant higher than the 55s, some QT8x range..

    I hate you GTA

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