Quirky Hi Lo Hand

Monteroy · Dec 29,2008, 12:55 PM

I only watched this, but it sort of brought up a strange situation

dealt to Monteroy [3s Ks Kd Kc]
hatewtf1: raises to $0.75
poseidon3: folds
masch: folds
Useless1: folds
Monteroy: folds
Davidkn61: calls $0.75
Zigh02091: calls $0.75
Rosie-lee: calls $0.75
sonic1980: folds
Weecat: folds
----- FLOP ----- [Ts 7d 4s]
hatewtf1: bets $2.25
Davidkn61: calls $2.25
Zigh02091: folds
Rosie-lee: raises to $5.10 and is all-in
hatewtf1: calls $2.85
Davidkn61: calls $2.85
----- TURN ----- [Ts 7d 4s][9h]
hatewtf1: checks
Davidkn61: bets $18.70
hatewtf1: calls $18.70
----- RIVER ----- [Ts 7d 4s 9h][Th]
hatewtf1: checks
Davidkn61: bets $1.03 and is all-in
hatewtf1: folds
Returned uncalled bets $1.03 to Davidkn61
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Davidkn61: shows [2d 7s Jd 8s] (HI: A Straight, Jack high)
Rosie-lee: shows [Ah 6c 5d 2c] (HI: A Pair of Tens, Ace high)
Davidkn61 collected $35.53 from Side pot #1
Davidkn61 collected $17.77 from Main pot

hatewtf1: a235 with the spades fk ing joke

Ok, so let's assume he has the hand he said he did. Main pot is $17.77 and already someone is all in so odds are his high hand of ace high on the turn probably is not good against that and he is facing a $19 bet from an opponent who has $1 left after. Also, there is a solid chance that if he only hits a low it will be quartered (which may be the reason I consider folding to the turn bet despite the number of outs)

He had a ton of low outs and scoop outs which is why he called, and while the fold to the $1 bet in the 50 pot on the river seemed horrific, he did only have a bad ace high. Thus, as insane as it looks was just calling the turn instead of putting in the final buck a semi freeroll for that buck? Personally I put in that last buck (if I chose not to fold on the turn) just to avoid the nightmare of seeing another busted A2 hand win, but this struck me as sort of a strange situation given the stacks.

Can a case be made for the call/fold plan he used here, and if not for the amounts in this hand (ie:$1 in a 50 pot) what about if the opponent had say $5 back after his turn bet, where at least there is a bit more in the way of implied odds if you hit one of your many outs, which did not exist in this specific hand.

My assessment:

He screwed up just calling the all in on the flop when he was able to just reraise shove there with a monster draw and maybe make the other guy fold, and if he does not then he is still ahead of nearly everything anyway. On the turn he probably should fold because there is no implied odds and his low draw may be for only a quarter of the pot. River, well no idea since I would never find myself in that spot with those stacks

lunatic · Dec 29,2008, 01:51 PM

Just getting into PLO8 but here goes.

I agree with you, I would probably reraise on the flop and raise the max. Although you do have a lot of outs you are still drawing in both directions. If you can make a set fold there (probably unlikely at these levels) and go heads up with the all in person I think you need to try and do that. And if the other person calls you are still alright with 2 cards to come.

As played I think I fold on the turn. You have to assume you are up against a made straight at this point and might be up against A2 as well although it is less likely that the same person has both. I guess a set from the all in person isn't too farfetched either. You need a perfect spade to fall on the river and a high non pairing one if you want to scoop.

According to Cardplayer you are winning the high about 20%, the low about 8% and scooping about 11%. Your equity is about 27%, you are getting 2 to 1 with no implied odds, so I guess it's closer than I thought it would be.

GTA Poker · Dec 29,2008, 02:02 PM

Easy flop shove

BBC Z · Dec 29,2008, 02:15 PM

He screwed up because he valued keeping customers in the pot more than just raising himself. Most of the errors my opponents make are bet sizing in Omaha. They either bet too much and make it an easy fold, or bet too little to make it an easy call. I can see the logic of just calling the flop hoping to make your hand, or get bailed out by a poor bet from a villian and see the river card cheap.

Quote:

Just getting into PLO8 but here goes.

Quote:

Although you do have a lot of outs you are still drawing in both directions.

Fail. Omaha is a game of draws, the 'made hand on the flop' is a nice to have rather than a requirement to raise.

lunatic · Dec 29,2008, 04:00 PM

That makes sense BBC. I didn't mean that you need to have a made hand to raise on the flop, I kinda meant the opposite. I want to raise to try and knock out a better high hand (ie. middle or bottom set, 2 pair etc.) to maybe give me a few more outs and a better shot at scooping. If I had a made hand on the flop with redraws to a better hand then I would be more inclined to let the other person come along.

Monteroy · Dec 29,2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA Poker

Easy flop shove

Heh, well yeah, in fact the only thing I would do in his shoes on the flop is make sure I could reshove if the shortie pushes to my initial bet. Sometimes you have to bet a little less then pot to set that up (to make sure your raise is at least a full unit reraise after he shoves), but in this case it was not an issue.

My question is once he gets past the obvious shove on the flop without shoving and is there on the turn what should he do then.

zoolook · Jan 08,2009, 10:00 PM

hatewtf should repot the flop soooo much equity if he gets hu with the shortstack
the call isn't a complete trainwreck, if he gets there for low on the turn he's probably getting a quarter of the main pot but he's likely freerolling for high in the sidepot.

as played he should have folded turn