Bad play, really bad play or you suck ballz ?

InsaneGuy · Jul 21,2008, 10:45 AM

This hand haunted me for a while now and I dunno what to think of it...
Here's the preflop action, do you call, fold, push.

Raiser has been winning alot of pots lately once with trip sixes and one with AA 2 hands ago. My image is a tight luckbox (not too long after those quads jack lol)

PokerStars Game #18971330548: Tournament #95565298, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1500/3000) - 2008/07/20 - 18:18:03 (ET)
Table '95565298 1166' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: TripleJ1984 (63236 in chips)
Seat 2: Dudze (27779 in chips)
Seat 3: illegalworks (51796 in chips)
Seat 4: hercules777 (31985 in chips)
Seat 5: Lu$h (4297 in chips)
Seat 6: Knobli (133560 in chips)
Seat 7: od89 (76566 in chips)
Seat 8: InsaneGuy (51034 in chips)
Seat 9: stevemc19 (31007 in chips)
TripleJ1984: posts the ante 300
Dudze: posts the ante 300
illegalworks: posts the ante 300
hercules777: posts the ante 300
Lu$h: posts the ante 300
Knobli: posts the ante 300
od89: posts the ante 300
InsaneGuy: posts the ante 300
stevemc19: posts the ante 300
od89: posts small blind 1500
InsaneGuy: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to InsaneGuy [Tc Kc]
stevemc19: folds
TripleJ1984: folds
Dudze: calls 3000
illegalworks: folds
hercules777: folds
Lu$h: folds
Knobli: raises 9000 to 12000
od89: folds
InsaneGuy: ?

Question is... is this a fold, a reraise or a call and why ?

Graham · Jul 21,2008, 10:55 AM

Fold.... you've got one player that just called, and one guy raising that seems to really like his hand. At what point do you think K high is in the lead?

InsaneGuy · Jul 21,2008, 11:05 AM

Well my line is this :

11$ - 1300+- people left next money bump is at 600 or so if I remember right.
I WILL need a double up and soon, K10s doesn't look so bad there.

ReefAquarium · Jul 21,2008, 11:32 AM

What I think you're asking here is , "Is he on a steal?" and , "Can I re-steal"

1. He's in the button,
2. He's attacking a tight BB.
3. He's shown down good hands.

4. He's raising a MP limper, He's not first in.
5. There is the MP limper still to act if you re-pop it.

6. Have you seen him fold to a re-raise?
7. How aggressive is he from the button?

8. Have you re-stolen recently?
9. If you have restolen recently have you done a stop and go? ie, Have they seen you flat call the raise and then hit any flop all in?

InsaneGuy · Jul 21,2008, 12:22 PM

Okay so I stole a couple hands ago I can't say I sw him steal.
1st mistake, my preflop call...

That was stupid, I agree, let's se what happens next :

InsaneGuy: calls 9000
Dudze: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc 9c 2h]

So at that point, I have a flush draw, straight flush draw and a straight draw.

InsaneGuy: ?

What do you do here after the preflop mistake?

Graham · Jul 21,2008, 12:30 PM

Either shove, or check-raise if you think he will bet it.

pkrfce9 · Jul 21,2008, 12:53 PM

jam now. you have one pot-sized bet which could give you some fold equity. if you go for the CR, you can't raise enough to give yourself fold equity. if it is checked around, your semi-bluff on the flop becomes a mostly-bluff on the turn.

ReefAquarium · Jul 21,2008, 02:03 PM

Shove-O-matic

westside8 · Jul 21,2008, 02:15 PM

Preflop, either fold/shove > call. With this flop, just shove.

pokrgod · Jul 22,2008, 04:59 PM

I agree, shove it. You like his fold here obviously. If he calls and is ahead, you have outs.

PokerVector · Aug 01,2008, 12:51 AM

I don't like the call pre-flop here but I have to agree that an all in push after a flop like that wouldn't be a bad play. If you check, he's very likely to bet out as he's riding a streak. Might as well become the aggressor and put him to the test.

Pantsonfire · Aug 01,2008, 11:37 AM

Preflop is all about reads. The shortstack that limped needs to be assessed. He has 9bbs and he limps. That could be a trap from a good player but not likely. Most good players would shove not limp. The raise from the button is lower than a standard raise, especially with antes. This guy has a pretty decent stack too.

I think there is a case for all three plays depending on your feel of the situation. I usually don't like a call here but the small raise and the antes make for very good pot odds to try to hit a flop like the one that came down. You'd just have to pray that the limper doesn't feel like going for broke here.

And since that is exactly the sort of flop you are looking for, time to shove right now. I would only checkraise here if I want a showdown for all my chips (or make a smaller bet at the flop). But this is a drawing hand so winning it outright on the flop with a semi bluff is really good.