Location: Milton, poker capital of the world.. after Wloo that is.
Posts: 8,578
I understand (sort of) the math to this but isn't this (needing certain % to call to make this profitable) more of a cash game perspective? I always understood and played as if chips saved are more valuable in a tournament than a cash game... I still feel like it is spew to simply use math to determine whether I should call or not. In other words I want a little more of an advantage than you guys are proposing. Now pushing is totally different and I get that but calling with weak hands is just that.. weak, imo anyways...
I really don't like disagreeing with some of the more seasoned tournament players on here but what the heck, it makes for good discussion....
Im kinda tight lol I would say any A here, K8s or better, maybe worse depends how i feel at the time, Any Q8s or better, J8s or better, 109os or 108os, even 107s might fall into my ranger here. 89s 79s, 67s or 56s. Any pair Obv. This is concrete really depends how I feel and how the sb has been playing, also how close to the money etc.
__________________
When the money is gone, its time to move on!!
now if my 2 cards are ahead of the sb shoving range how do i know if im taking it every time or waiting for a better spot....ie first to act...
Take it every time if it's def +EV. The only reason I wouldn't call all of the +EV hands vs. an ATC range here is if I'm not quite sure if the villain is shoving literally 32o or not. I might assume he's shoving 85-90% to be safe and call everything that's profitable vs. that range.
I understand (sort of) the math to this but isn't this (needing certain % to call to make this profitable) more of a cash game perspective? I always understood and played as if chips saved are more valuable in a tournament than a cash game... I still feel like it is spew to simply use math to determine whether I should call or not. In other words I want a little more of an advantage than you guys are proposing. Now pushing is totally different and I get that but calling with weak hands is just that.. weak, imo anyways...
I really don't like disagreeing with some of the more seasoned tournament players on here but what the heck, it makes for good discussion....
Needing a certain % to call is def just a fundamental poker perspective. In cash games you want to take every profitable edge you can that will make you money beyond the rake. In MTTs it's a bit more arguable. I think you're alluding to the value of tournament life, and your last chip >>>>> your 100th chip. This is definitely true. In single table tournaments you have to live and die by this since if you play purely cEV you're gonna be losing a lot of money. In MTTs it's a lot more abstract since cEV and $EV are much closer until the final table for the most part. You should always be using math to choose whether you should call or not, but since tourney life does have some value (even though it's hard to quantify), you might want to use some margin of error, such as I suggested above by assuming they're slightly tighter, or by only taking spots with a certain % edge, not ones that are basically breakeven.
But, you have to be careful to not over compensate for your tourney life, since that's where we as MTT regs are making our money, from players who aren't willing to take a stand to us and will let us exploit them to no end. For instance, using your calling range for shoves unadjusted, if we played heads up with probably up to 20-25BB stacks and I shoved every single hand, I'd win in the long run since it's so exploitably tight. Though, your range could definitely be closer to optimal vs. the average player at lower stakes since they're not shoving near as much as they can/should.
Just out of curiousity, which range is proitable to shove BvB against a decent opponent with 10 BB effective stacks? I know it's not ATC so is it like 85%? 75%?
Just out of curiousity, which range is proitable to shove BvB against a decent opponent with 10 BB effective stacks? I know it's not ATC so is it like 85%? 75%?
Top 70-75 vs. a boss calling nearly perfect. 80% vs. someone good/on the tighter side.
Poker Forum Canada offers bonuses for many online poker
sites. Party Poker Bonus
Code is the best Canadian poker bonus with Titan Poker Bonus Code being the second best and last but not least is PokerStars Marketing Code. Clearing the full bonus on each site will add a total of
$1,700 in bonus cash to your online bankroll.
