darbday

Std. shove? Is min raise call shorty's an option? Big stacks are reg's but not good enough to re-shove a wide range. Ever folding? I haven't put this in an ICM calc but I imagine a9s is a fold

Poker Stars, $7.34 + $0.66 NL Hold'em Tournament, 1,000/2,000 Blinds, 200 Ante, 9 Players

UTG+2: 49,221
MP1: 12,842
MP2: 43,016
CO: 13,187
BTN: 7,369
SB: 66,414
BB: 22,948
JodaB. (UTG): 30,868
UTG+1: 24,135

Pre-Flop: (4,800) T A dealt to JodaB. (UTG)
JodaB

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

GTA Poker

I doubt this is an ICM shove given stack sizes. Personally, without doing the math I would 2.1x and call a short shove. I can't min raise cuz I'm not cool enough.

It would also depend a bit on table dynamics but I'm not sure if you know that much mass tabling.

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

now this range is not adjusted or necessarily correct but its the icm with a 180 man payout

HoldemResources.net: Beta ICM Nash Calculator

icm.JPG


I am table dynamics

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

Vekked

rape it in

GTA Poker

I didn't see the antes...I assume this is always a push/fold spot?

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

but its the ft

yes....but....looking at the stack sizes and with the players that were here, its going to be close to optimal to raise fold to the big stacks and just call the shorty's.

I might need more chips and slightly different stack sizes...but i think its close since nobody will widen there range when I min raise, and the big stacks are only going to re-shove a range that dominates us

__________________
I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

GTA Poker

That's was my first thought but aren't we giving up too large a %age of our stack by r/folding?

You would have to do the math by assigning a range to the large stacks that would shove on you and how frequently they would be dealt those hands and what you lose by r/f vs how often you steal then blinds and antes vs what you perceive as a shorty's reshove range and how you do against it when you call.

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

In short yes, and in general yes, but i think its almost a question here because we have AT and the bigstack reshove ranges are AJs+ TT+ and never KQ. So we don't get the normal odds to call a 3bet shove because here AT is uber dominated not just beat by his range, the cards they reshove are bad for our specific hand....


And that min raising utg look really strong here so everyone ranges are maximally tight

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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

Vekked

r/f could be fine fo sho, in a vacuum it's a shove just from the HH

GTA Poker

I don't play MTTS, but I am friends with a MTT pro and used to watch some of his online FTs.

Is UTG raise really perceived as strength these days? When I would watch him 1-2 years ago UTG was the new steal spot and I would think that players have adjusted to UTG raises with weaker shoves today.

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

GTA Poker

I'd be interested in seeing the math on the 3 scenarios to calculate overall EV of min raising UTG, but it sounds like a large amount of work.

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

<^^>

no one will ever do it, ha. actually people do it but its obv not fun. Best thing to do is to just ask a pro, keeping in mind any math done with icm is limited because icm has assumptions and approximations that make it not always correct....

maybe this problem is easier to solve than i describe tho

__________________
I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

GTA Poker

give me a hand %range shove from the big stacks and a hand %range shove from the short stacks and then we can figure it out

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

darbday

JodaB. (UTG): 30,868

UTG+1: 24,135 88, AJs+
UTG+2: 49,221 TT, AJs+
MP1: 12,842 77+, ATs+
MP2: 43,016 TT, AJs+
CO: 13,187 77+, ATs+
BTN: 7,369 55+ AT+ , KJs+,
SB: 66,414 TT, AJs+
BB: 22,948 77 , AJs+,

see you'd have to play around a lil. sometimes people will fold ajs. Some will re jam hands like 99 and ajo.

the bb will flat sometimes and check fold alot with hands like kq.


so we can argue and adjust but prob start there

__________________
I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.

GTA Poker

will get this done tomorrow (hopefully)

__________________
That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.