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betrthanphil · Mar 29,2011, 07:14 PM

PokerStars Game #60031601591: Tournament #414010532, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/03/29 20:05:43 ET
Table '414010532 3' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: munyonki (180432 in chips)
Seat 2: SiMitchell (163905 in chips)
Seat 3: shaniac (124198 in chips)
Seat 5: linz247 (105566 in chips)
Seat 7: xxericxx1 (99912 in chips)
Seat 8: surfingbodhi (207822 in chips)
Seat 9: BetrThanPhil (488955 in chips)
munyonki: posts the ante 700
SiMitchell: posts the ante 700
shaniac: posts the ante 700
linz247: posts the ante 700
xxericxx1: posts the ante 700
surfingbodhi: posts the ante 700
BetrThanPhil: posts the ante 700
SiMitchell: posts small blind 3500
shaniac: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BetrThanPhil [As 7c]
linz247: folds
xxericxx1: folds
surfingbodhi: folds
BetrThanPhil: raises 8850 to 15850
munyonki: folds
SiMitchell: folds
shaniac: raises 107648 to 123498 and is all-in
BetrThanPhil: ?
I have a very hard time with these spots as I see them coming before I raise. Like i feel like its a sick spot for him. Ive been very aggressive as Ive had the stack to do it. Ive played a 4 bet pot with him. Plus hes a PS pro. Thought? I could be way off and this could be an auto muck, but this is why Im asking, as im not sure what to do here.

darbday · Mar 29,2011, 08:02 PM

because of your initial bet and antes in play ill bet its almost a call even though were not happy about it. I think its your opening hand that makes this tough. Villain can be quite light if he thinks you might fold. You gotta know before you open whether or not your gonna call a shorts stack big blind. Because hes a short stack pro in the big blind i would only raise with a hand i would call an all in with (unless he has more than 20bbs or so. a5s would be my worst ace i would call with here....

betrthanphil · Mar 29,2011, 11:30 PM

So your saying you wouldnt raise in the first place here?

DennisG · Mar 30,2011, 02:26 AM

With the fact that you have been aggressive, and you knowing that the bb is aware of this, and is aware of spots like this, that he can very likely shove wide here..BUT..that being said..if he is shoving even 50% of his hands here we are still only flipping...do you want to double up a pro? On the other side of the coin...if we make the call the rest of the table sees we are calling what they might think is "light" and not raise/folding... they will tighten up their shoving ranges allowing you to steal more after, should you win here..

It is also an easy fold, pick a better spot kinda place...I like our big stack and his small one.

-gonna go see if I can't find this spot in the Rizen/Apestyles book...lol

-ok, it seems that investing 1/4 of our stack here with A7o probably isn't optimal..20 or more bb's we can raise and fold to a shove, less than, we can't really fold, it's too weak...seeing him in the bb and knowing he knows the spot is good for a wide shove should probably lend weight to folding pre.

getem76 · Mar 30,2011, 04:42 AM

play the next one, lots of time to play and hope for a better spot, probably the only thing your ahead of here is KQ off suit he would shove with, every other ace is bigger than yours, or a wired pair, smaller than 7s sure...id shove with em anyway

philliivey · Mar 30,2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betrthanphil

So your saying you wouldnt raise in the first place here?

I think it's o.k., but shaniac knows your most likely raising light, but on the other hand my first "feeling" is to fold.

But I am interested to hear what wetts and vekked has to say.....

Vekked · Mar 30,2011, 09:25 AM

He has to be reshipping like 30% of the time for this to be a call. IDK much about shaniac's game other than he's an old school online grinder, so I'm assuming he'll be slightly tighter in these spots if anything, so yea just muck it without much thought. I mean there's rarely gonna be a player who this is a call against, since they have to be pretty much shoves any ace on you, and not many are doing that.

The open depends on all the players left to act, not just shaniac. If someone else is capable of reshipping light I likely fold this. If shaniac's the only one and the other 2 guys are nits then r/f should be fine. All 3 guys have to be jamming on your >20% avg to make you not show an immediate profit.

betrthanphil · Mar 30,2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vekked

He has to be reshipping like 30% of the time for this to be a call. IDK much about shaniac's game other than he's an old school online grinder, so I'm assuming he'll be slightly tighter in these spots if anything, so yea just muck it without much thought. I mean there's rarely gonna be a player who this is a call against, since they have to be pretty much shoves any ace on you, and not many are doing that.

The open depends on all the players left to act, not just shaniac. If someone else is capable of reshipping light I likely fold this. If shaniac's the only one and the other 2 guys are nits then r/f should be fine. All 3 guys have to be jamming on your >20% avg to make you not show an immediate profit.

Yeah the other 2 are very tight. So i was thinking on the basis that he knows that i know that they are almost always folding, which makes my raise look more like a steal. But I guess thinking way to deep, just need to keep it simple. I was really puzzled and even used a bit of my time clock as sad as that sound.
Results- I ended up calling and he had 99. I got lucky but hardly the point. I appreciate the comments as I was really unsure how to act in these spots.

darbday · Mar 30,2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betrthanphil

So your saying you wouldnt raise in the first place here?

its close but as far as calling i don't think thats close at all, i think its a fold. A7o isn't going to play well against his range....

philliivey · Mar 30,2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betrthanphil

Yeah the other 2 are very tight. So i was thinking on the basis that he knows that i know that they are almost always folding, which makes my raise look more like a steal. But I guess thinking way to deep, just need to keep it simple. I was really puzzled and even used a bit of my time clock as sad as that sound.
Results- I ended up calling and he had 99. I got lucky but hardly the point. I appreciate the comments as I was really unsure how to act in these spots.

Holy f!@#, I was going to say he had 88's

.

betrthanphil · Mar 30,2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

its close but as far as calling i don't think thats close at all, i think its a fold. A7o isn't going to play well against his range....

I dont see how you say its not even close at all for calling when in your original post you said the worst A you would call with is A5s. How do you go from saying that to now saying its not even close?

darbday · Mar 30,2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betrthanphil

I dont see how you say its not even close at all for calling when in your original post you said the worst A you would call with is A5s. How do you go from saying that to now saying its not even close?

a5s crushes a7o

betrthanphil · Mar 30,2011, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

a5s crushes a7o

Crushes? Im not disagreeing about a fold here. But how can 2 flush draws be worse the 1 :P

Vekked · Mar 30,2011, 06:37 PM

I would probably call A9s at worst.

darbday · Mar 30,2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vekked

I would probably call A9s at worst.

ya i think thats one hand above a5s....well thats the way i play it...and im way happier with a9s too