over calling range?

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  1. #16
    Local Celebrity Wetts1012's Avatar
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    This is super deep. I dont fold QQ often.

    Both villains have no reason to be playing around given action already. Guy shoving 2obb to begin knows cards are getting shown.

    I fold QQ here.
    Last edited by Wetts1012; Jun 30,2014 at 09:57 PM.
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  2. #17
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    ya, pretty tilting all things considered , 3 way all ins when best case you are flipping is suicide , just hard to find a fold when there's only 2 hands that have me crushed

    its hard not to be results oriented , but I just wanted to see what u guys thought. If i had won, i would have thought i was a genius , and there wouldnt be a thread lol

    thanks for help

  3. #18
    Accidental Poker Tourist BlondeFish's Avatar
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    It's not super deep, though. Assuming there were antes, SB who "rips for 28K" has an M of only ~10. UTG+1 has an M of ~18, but has already put 2 BB in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wetts1012 View Post
    This is super deep. I dont fold QQ often.
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  4. #19
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    No antes yet at this point

  5. #20
    Local Celebrity Wetts1012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlondeFish View Post
    It's not super deep, though. Assuming there were antes, SB who "rips for 28K" has an M of only ~10. UTG+1 has an M of ~18, but has already put 2 BB in.
    20+ BB is pretty deep in any kind of regular MTT imo.

    88 and 99 not in a cold 4b shove range with 20+bb.

    Just my opinion.
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  6. #21
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    I don't think it's out of his range to be 4 betting AQ, AJs and 88+ depending on how loose/aggressive/bad UTG+1 is. Only info we have is that he tried to bluff a semi-big pot with Q7. The button 3b isn't really scary coming from someone who's 5 bet and shown air.

    I think folding queens is fine but, in a vacuum, I'm calling off here more often that not. The fact that you still have 12-13bb if you lose (which is enough to work with, especially w/o antes), makes me more likely to call too.

  7. #22
    Local Celebrity Wetts1012's Avatar
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    Its the cold 4b that tightens the range IMO. Something about random live amateurs and how they perceive a 3B from and UTG open. IDK, just doesn't feel good. HU, Im snapping a 4B here all day.

    But a cold 4 followed by an iso shove makes me feel really unhappy about my hand.

    Unless héros been showing down random 3b garbage (which prob wouldn't be me).
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  8. #23
    Average sized member The_Awesome's Avatar
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    I am also folding all but KK and AA here. In fact I think I just read a near identical example of this in the Harrington book I am reading with the same advice.
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  9. #24
    Sorry sir, I have 6 Aces! Card Dead's Avatar
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    With 50 bigs behind and limited info I fold QQ here every time.

    At best, they both have underpairs or both have AK, but how often are you going to be in that spot?

    Your image is not that relevant here IMO, as the old guy re-shoved over top of the 4-bet from the SB, not over your 3-bet. And if he's reading the SB as strong, you gotta think the old guy is pretty strong here also.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Card Dead View Post
    With 50 bigs behind and limited info I fold QQ here every time.

    At best, they both have underpairs or both have AK, but how often are you going to be in that spot?

    Your image is not that relevant here IMO, as the old guy re-shoved over top of the 4-bet from the SB, not over your 3-bet. And if he's reading the SB as strong, you gotta think the old guy is pretty strong here also.
    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?

  11. #26
    Local Celebrity Wetts1012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHTNCTRHM View Post
    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?
    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wetts1012 View Post
    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do
    looooool

    Alot of gold in this post

  13. #28
    Sorry sir, I have 6 Aces! Card Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHTNCTRHM View Post
    u dont think he could be isolating with AQs+ TT+ ?
    I try not to put ppl on hands I want them to have, but rather, hands that make sense.

    Without Intel on this guy, I would assume he's an average player and an average player is not likely to shove light on a guy who picked off his bluff with an under pair, as he figures your calling range is wider than average.

    The absolute low end of his range here is TT or AQ suited (and since you have 2 Qs, this is pretty unlikely), but what % of the time is he going to have one of the 3 hands you crush (TT, JJ, AQ)? Its far more likely he has AK, KK, or AA.

    Also, what range are you putting SB on? I'm putting him on similar range, or slightly better, and you can't discount him because you're investing more in the main pot than the side pot. 28k vs 22k

    So the question is, how often are you beating both these guys?

    I say almost never, and I fold every time.

  14. #29
    Super Moderator compuease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wetts1012 View Post
    I played a tournament at Brantford about 6 weeks ago and opened 12bb utg+1 and Old dude bb folded aq Faceup.

    Iono if this range is accurate for this dude.

    Comp, what would you do
    Against you? Jam all day... Against another old dude? Think about it and jam.. Now if this was a satellite and at the bubble, certainly think longer.. But yeh jam..

    Answer above to Wetts open.. To the question from op, fold 90%, jam 5% and fall asleep the other 5.
    Last edited by compuease; Jul 09,2014 at 08:36 AM.
    If someone doesn't hate you, you're a wimp... comp: circa 2012.. and now 2013 as well, quite likely continuing into 2014, Now confirmed as CONTINUING well into 2014. Ah, f'it, 2015's just more of the same..

  15. #30
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    Lol how old is comp actually

    I'm scared to know because my mental image of him is the nuts (never met him irl, but I have an imagination of what he looks like)

    Also, comp is pro IE and pro bb , and that shit is funny as hell to me. Has to be a level

    I do thinK folding is correct btw, even after the results. Old men are just nits , and ALWAYS have it. I'll keep this in mind next time I flick live
    Last edited by OHTNCTRHM; Jul 09,2014 at 11:24 AM.

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