QQ in 3 bet pot

darbday · Nov 18,2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA Poker

His ACTUAL range is ATC...do you mean his perceived range or a solid player's range?

i think what you mean here is if we see villains in general show up with any cards like 97o ...j2s......T2o or whatever....that if we are up against a random then we can put him on atc.....

but really its more correct i think to give him a reasonable range like AA KK QQ AK....etc. keep it wide to like 99 or something....and then add a few wildcard hands knowing that villains will come up with air 'sometimes'.......

not sure if thats what you meant but i think alot of people skew the math

that way.....

edit: i don't have a source for that tho...

Richard~ · Nov 18,2011, 04:07 PM

lets put it like this, folding QQ to a checkraise is a super specific read that we can't make with randoms

gettin daize · Nov 18,2011, 04:17 PM

are we actually snap shoving here?

some how we dont put villian on AA, KK?

If this is a higher buy in mtt, i would tread very carefully as played.

folding ladies is pretty tough, but has to be done sometimes, especially in higher stake MTT's

darbday · Nov 18,2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettin daize

are we actually snap shoving here?

some how we dont put villian on AA, KK?

If this is a higher buy in mtt, i would tread very carefully as played.

folding ladies is pretty tough, but has to be done sometimes, especially in higher stake MTT's

its best we put villain on a range here...not one or two hands...

gettin daize · Nov 18,2011, 04:31 PM

so, his range doesnt have the 2 hands that crush us tho?

We ship it in, and he has us dominated and we say "gg" when we are pwnt and move on?

noted.

darbday · Nov 18,2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettin daize

so, his range doesnt have the 2 hands that crush us tho?

We ship it in, and he has us dominated and we say "gg" when we are pwnt and move on?

noted.

no....we put the range into poker stove....average the answer...and take the best option

darbday · Nov 18,2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettin daize

If this is a higher buy in mtt, i would tread very carefully as played.

$4

reibs · Nov 18,2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

but really its more correct i think to give him a reasonable range like AA KK QQ AK....etc. keep it wide to like 99 or something....and then add a few wildcard hands knowing that villains will come up with air 'sometimes'.......

yes that was what I was thinking too, this maybe?

TT+,AQs+,JTs,T8s,98s,96s,AQo+

GTA Poker · Nov 18,2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

i think what you mean here is if we see villains in general show up with any cards like 97o ...j2s......T2o or whatever....that if we are up against a random then we can put him on atc.....

but really its more correct i think to give him a reasonable range like AA KK QQ AK....etc. keep it wide to like 99 or something....and then add a few wildcard hands knowing that villains will come up with air 'sometimes'.......

not sure if thats what you meant but i think alot of people skew the math

that way.....

edit: i don't have a source for that tho...

I am saying that THIS player's ACTUAL range is ATC (obv after the cards are flipped)...but if you want to assign an average player's range for this situation then that's different

ps -- I raise or 3 bet this spot all the time in live cash games from the blinds to build a pot to steal HU on later streets or to take it down pre...villain's post-flop line is insanely stupid

darbday · Nov 20,2011, 10:43 AM

Preflop

equity
Hand 0: 44.962% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 55.038% { QcQd }

*plus you can add some random air and expect to be somewhere around 60%

Postflop vs his cr range which won't really change much here because hes gonna check raise most of his over cards most of the time and same with over pairs......

Board: 3c 9h 6h

equity
Hand 0: 38.416% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
Hand 1: 61.584% { QcQd }

If we think maybe villain doesn't check raise ak aq tt and jj as much then we are closer to a flip

Postflop

Board: 3c 9h 6h

equity
Hand 0: 48.753% { QQ+, JcJd, JdJh, JhJs, AKs, AhQh, AsQs, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs,
AdKh, AdKs, AhKs, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AdQh, AdQs, AhQs }

Hand 1: 51.247% { QcQd }

But we still haven't accounted for the fact that villain shows air here sometimes and that theres is already money in the pot for a better deal on our money.

*obv villain can have 96s or something silly or a set but against his range...esp knowing its that wide we are still happy to get it in i think...

SuitedPair · Nov 20,2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gettin daize

are we actually snap shoving here?

some how we dont put villian on AA, KK?

If this is a higher buy in mtt, i would tread very carefully as played.

folding ladies is pretty tough, but has to be done sometimes, especially in higher stake MTT's

Is this right though? If playing with proper BR MGMT shouldn't the buy in amount have no impact on the choice of play? Or are you more pointing to the fact that higher buy-in generally means higher quality villains?

darbday · Nov 20,2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuitedPair

Is this right though? If playing with proper BR MGMT shouldn't the buy in amount have no impact on the choice of play? Or are you more pointing to the fact that higher buy-in generally means higher quality villains?

yes it changes the kinds of hands the villain could or would likely have is all..