darbday

In higher level buy in mtts or one with better players I wouldn't expect a guy to call a shove here so much i'd think, so i just call. but because his deep stack and loose play i'd think i could shove all the time here....truth to this?.....


Full Tilt Poker Game #22447166053: $1 + $0.10 Tournament (173132590), Table 34 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:42:07 ET - 2010/07/19
Seat 1: forboon (9,601)
Seat 2: KK1407 (15,725)
Seat 3: Jack Hearts1 (6,922)
Seat 4: chip-marlow (19,237)
Seat 5: petergace (52,621)
Seat 6: DrunkenCacadoo (28,907)
Seat 8: iCooler (11,258)
Seat 9: oneeka (8,434)
forboon antes 75
KK1407 antes 75
Jack Hearts1 antes 75
chip-marlow antes 75
petergace antes 75
DrunkenCacadoo antes 75
iCooler antes 75
oneeka antes 75
chip-marlow posts the small blind of 300
petergace posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Qs As]
DrunkenCacadoo folds
iCooler folds
oneeka folds
forboon raises to 2,100
KK1407 has 15 seconds left to act
KK1407 folds
Jack Hearts1 folds
chip-marlow folds
petergace calls 1,500
*** FLOP *** [3d 4d Qh]
petergace bets 2,400
forboon is all in

Vekked

You won't get into a situation like this with better players cuz they're never leading into you in this spot, lol. You have like 5k behind after you shove, no one's bet/folding a pair here, shove every single time please. Also your raise pre is wayyy too big. Make it 1500 max, I'd probably make it like 1333 or something. I know it's lower stakes etc, but raising that big does nothing but put you in really awkward spots are force you to call off your stack a ton post flop with A-high.

darbday

3.1 times the bb cannot possibly be too big. alot of times i make small ball bets but here im gonna go and go pretty much every flop.

edit: im not saying i know what go and go means.

Vekked

The only time 3.1 BB is ever reasonable is if everyone's 200BB deep. Your opening raise should nevvver be over like 15% of your stack, let alone 20%. I'm going to eat sushi but I'll explain further when I get back if someone else doesn't. But trust me, anything over 2.5BB is way too big.

darbday

will be much appreciated.

Richard~

I'll bite, putting in more chips with your entire range leaves you open to frequent 3betting. Also, if you adjust by opening ridiculously tight everything sucks when you just win the blinds once per hour. Besides, everyone loves postflop play, also, the Game <.<

goodnight for now

philliivey

Are we twins? I did this exact raise in my last game but it was heads up.

I can try and find it if anyone is interested.

__________________
Always did the right thing and it feels good.

darbday

at a table like this, raising lighter will induce 3bets many times. and if not 3bet then certainly multiple callers. I figured this preflop bet is standard tight aggressive.

Grammar Police

Shove here always.

Preflop is fine. Note the antes, so there is 1500 in the middle when we open, and the big stack is the BB. Perfect storm, he calls, we hit, ship it!

And no I don't want to know how it ended!

Vekked

This stuff is def important considerations, raising smaller so you can get away from hands easier when you're 3-bet or reshove on, and not making it so barely anyone ever calls with weaker hands when you have stronger ones on average.

But the main consideration is the stack to pot ratio. With this raise size there's 5100 in the pot. If you c-bet 2600 and get called, the pot's 10300 on the turn and you have 4900 behind, or less than 1 pot-sized bet. If you bet 2600 and get shoved on, you're getting over 3:1 on your money and basically have to get it in anyways as long as you have 2 overs or he can possibly have a draw but you'll be way behind. We're going to be put into tons of awkward flop/turn spots like this with little room to maneuver. I think that raising AQs here with the plan to get it in on any flop just makes little sense, why not just shove pre? At least you know that will be profitable.

If you instead made it 1500, the pot's 3900 on the flop, you bet 2000 and get called, the pot is 7900 on the turn with 6100 behind. This is a way better situation in that we have decent fold equity, so even if we miss the flop but turn a gut shot or flush draw, we can still jam and expect to show a profit by getting them to fold some mid-low pairs. We always want to have at least 3/4 of the pot to jam into the pot on any given street imo. Also, if we get jammed on a K96hhh flop we can easily get away since we're only getting around 2.2:1 and need 30% equity to profitably call.

We always want to leave ourselves options on every street. Committing ourselves for the future streets when the cards/our equity isn't known is usually pretty bad unless you have a good read on someone that gives you reason to do so (they call all 3-bets under all in, so instead of jamming someone pre, you 3-bet AK small out of position and shove any flop). Raising smaller allows us to bet/call flop, bet/fold flop, shove turn as a bluff, check/call turn, or check/fold turn. If we raise this bigger size, almost all of our flop bets will be bet/call, and our turn bluff shoves will work far less frequently since we're shoving for under 1/2 pot.

Vekked

There's not a single table in the world that you can't profitably raise light in the right spots/with the right hands, and since we should be raising light sometimes, we should be raising smaller to make it more profitable.

Hobbes

With antes I raise 2.5-2.75 pre and if 3-bet I shove/stack off here.
As played I put the rest of my chip in on the flop. The flat could be Ax of diamonds or mid pocket pair.

You can easily add 15% to your stack here.

What range do you think he's flatting here?

__________________
Hobbes
Playing micros is like getting a rectal exam from a leper who walks away with 9 fingers.

DennisG

My standard raise with whatever I am opening, when blinds are at 300/600 is usually 1550....as has been said..your stack is way too small to open any bigger, and leaves room to get away. At this particular level/buyin, I am shoving any 3 bet or calling any shove preflop...and after the flop...getting it in all day long..

__________________
I am not on tilt, you're just a f*cking idiot.

darbday

you miss read the thread a little....the answer is i have him beat and the question is how can i get him to double me up. here in this tourney you shove, question is with better players, will you just call and hope for more money on the turn.

everyone here is saying shove the flop......i realize we feel we are good here everytime, and decent player in the bb is folding to a shove with anything less than tptk.

darbday

how often do you open raise for less than 2.5 bb? if you call a shove you are a dog every single time. not saying i lay down but still, i think it deserves consideration. a tight player who sees me as tight 3 bet shoves ak, jj+.....why do you call that?