Analyze My HandNot sure if you played a hand right? Post it here and let the other members pick it apart. This isn't meant to ridicule each other's play, but more to provide tips to make their game better!
Hand 2 BB, stack about 7000, average now at 16k+ Blinds, 200/400ish J10 clubs. T8urmoney makes it 1600 to go. I play this hand hoping to hit a flop hard, mostly a draw Flop top pair, but otherwise don’t connect to the board. We are heads up in the pot and I lead for 1350ish He re-raises to somewhere between 3600-3800. Same as Hand 1, it’s push or fold in the end. I end up folding, a few others who’s game I respect agree with the fold, figure I should have checked raised here if anything. The only reasons I question this hand are as follows: When I do muck, T8 asks if I had KJ. This raises a bit of a red flag that I might be perceived as ultra tight at this point. I also know that T8 observed that I hated being re-raised in QQ hand. I know that my image is fairly tight as I had played back at a raise on my blind with a 78 and got a fold out of a balanced player on an Ace 7, x flop when I lead into him. This was only confirmed later when T8 and I got in the Ace Queen hand, he called my preflop raise but didn’t snap call with AQ when I pushed in short stacked on a flopped Ace, holding AQ himself. Later when I shoved about 4k with pocket fives, I didn’t get a snap call from a bigger stack holding 77, though he did decide to make the call and bust me. Part of me wonders if T8 just leveled the hell out of me in this hand. He also said "I had a big hand persay" after the muck. His table talk definetlly is effective. Early in the game I had showed down 88 calling every street on jack high flop to take the pot and got stubborn with top pair in a big pot in another, so I don’t think I was sending the message I would easily fold even if I connected. Thoughts?
this is a shove or fold pre i think. you can shove if you think he fold enough (his opening range is wide enough). i don't think you have enough chips to make post flop raises and folds.
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I think I'll just get it in bad here and chalk it up to variance.
this is a shove or fold pre i think. you can shove if you think he fold enough (his opening range is wide enough). i don't think you have enough chips to make post flop raises and folds.
I was just going to say how much I would have liked a shove pre here.
Especially against T8 who is opening super wide - and its a hand that plays really well if we do get called.
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Waking Up In The Morning and Pissing Excellence
If I understand the hand correctly, Jon open limped utg....and flatted the 4x raise.
From Jon's perspective....this should be an open fold. You're not deep enough to be playing this hand...especially oop from early position. There's merit to raising from late position....but without additional information, I don't like anything but folding preflop.
When you get iso-raised from T8, you really shouldn't call. You don't have enough chips behind to be able to profitable play this hand postflop oop. Which is why people are saying it's a shove or fold preflop now. Without further information, I think it's an easy fold. You limp utg, and get raised utg+2 with entire table left to act. You're ahead of no hands....and can only bluff.
After you call preflop and have top pair....I think the only real play is to check-shove...unless you pick up something.
For T8, if you're iso-raising and folding to any 3bet/shove....you might as well iso less. It's not going to make a difference if you iso to 1350 or 1600. You're going to get the same result 90% of the time...you should make it smaller to make your bluffs cheaper.
For T8, if you're iso-raising and folding to any 3bet/shove....you might as well iso less. It's not going to make a difference if you iso to 1350 or 1600. You're going to get the same result 90% of the time...you should make it smaller to make your bluffs cheaper.
think u misread...raise pre was to 1600....raise on flop was to 3800...and I wasn't folding obv on the flop
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President of the Beration Nation
Didn't misread...Jon limped for 400..and you raised to 1600. I'm saying you don't have to raise him that much with your entire range.
I know the general rule ppl go by is (3x the bb + 1 bb for every limper)....that rule may apply at the beginning of tourneys when everyone is deep stacked. In this spot, your intention was to raise-fold to a shove....if you ever have a raise-folding range here, you should raise less (with your entire range). Jon's not deep enough for that general rule to apply, you're risking more chips needlessly. This is especially true...because you not only have to get through the initial limp, but the rest of the table that has yet to act.
The only real risk of raising to say 1400 instead of 1600 is that you may be get a cold-call that you didn't want, but realistically....live players ranges here aren't going to change if you make it 1400 or 1600.
I know it sounds silly to worry about 1/2 a bb, but optimizing each bet will only make you better.
Location: Milton, poker capital of the world.. after Wloo that is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windbreaker
I know it sounds silly to worry about 1/2 a bb, but optimizing each bet will only make you better.
Who are you windbreaker? I have looked over your posts since you came here and you seem way to logical and mature to be posting here.
In any case, post more to balance off the illogical majority...
Not sure if I'm blind but no one wrote what kind of a flop you got. Other than than, openfold pre is best, if you don't, you limpfold. Limp-call-donk UTG seems like a line that's never gonna get a fold if you start with less than 20 BB's
And T8, what are you even opening if you're snapfolding to a short stack shove?
I am asking the next few questions and explaining what I was thinking in next few posts to try to learn, just so it doesn't seem like I am arguing any points. More and previous Responds appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard~
Still don't think you should be shoving 17,5 BB's UTG
Have to agree with T8 and Richard here...I can see where this would be tough for anyone to call, but seems hugely risky considering the pot.
I am being pretty loose in making the call at all, but my stack can still handle a bit more of a dip before I am push or fold IMO. I also agree I should fold this pre, after dumping some chips 2 hands in a row, obviously anxious/tilty to get back in it and this was a more isolated hand and not terrible holdings. Lets all agree my pre-flop actions were shit, but post flop is where I am uncertain.
T8 gave me no reason not to believe he didn't have a hand, he wasn't playing ultra aggresive. The check raise line I like, but he says in the thread he was not folding and I don't believe he would either. He put enough in to lead me to believe he would call my shove, whether or not this was intentional to represent added strength only he knows.
I know he is a good player, lucky enough to have some insight on his track record so I can assume he is giving me credit for top pair and still raising.
Am I being too tight folding top pair here? Is this the kind of post flop spot and stacks sizes I should be more actively check raising?
I was just going to say how much I would have liked a shove pre here.
Especially against T8 who is opening super wide - and its a hand that plays really well if we do get called.
It's intresting all of our online grinders shove so deep, I believe it is a great play based on the range some players would call with and leaves me curious as to learn more at how they make this decision
However it seems hugely risky against live players. I watched Dennis shove 25 BB into what didn't seem like a huge pot pre-flop, holding A9. What was weirder is that he got called by A6, doubling him up.
Biggest problem I have is that there are so many marginal hands that there are a ton of players would call the minimum they had to with marginal hands pre-flop and still be willing to call off their stack here.
Medium pockets, A10, Aj, AQ aren't always raised alot in this size of tourney, do this backfire often or are you feeling pretty confident that nobody will call or are you confident you will be racing vs a worst hand?
Help me understand the thinking, suited connectors I see that getting called is so much a big deal, and A9 is ahead of a ton of hands, is the strength of the shove against a similar stack and picking off smaller pots repeatedly the plan?
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