Live 1/2

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 01:57 AM

Ok..so, I spent my first real weekend grinding away at the casino in Penticton, BC...

I came up to this hand...now..my numbers aren't exact, but they are close..I know I should have paid a bit more attention...but..so be it..

First..the three people in question..

Button: Hyper aggressive big stack (1300+) regular. Been raising every pot with limpers in it, calling most bets/raises to see the flop then betting big to push everyone out..

BB: Fairly new to the table, about 15-20? hands..made some pf raises 12-15 bucks each (table norm), let go of the hands after...earlier in the day while I was on the wait list I watched him tilt off a big stack in two hands by insta shoving on the river and getting called..showing crap...then he left...later bought back into our table for 200.

Myself in MP: Table image has been reasonably tight, won some decent pots, but only shown 2 hands, QQ (set) and J9 (straight)...been sitting about an hour and up about 80 bucks from my 160 buy in.

I pick up KK

UTG has straddle on for 4...so we get most everyone limping in..seems to be common for everyone to limp when the straddle comes on..not sure why as hyper aggressive boy just raises it 30-40 bucks every time..and everyone folds...but..whatever..not the case in point..lol..

comes to me I raise to 30 about 15? in the pot..folds to button who, of course, calls... and BB calls....

Flop 7 Q 7c

checked to me, bet 30. (I know, not big enough)

Hyper folds (strangely..but he has shown a few hands of mine respect)

BB flat calls.

Turn 3c

I bet 40 (again..in retrospect..not enough)
BB raises to 75
I think for a bit and call. (probably should have re shipped?)

Jc comes off on the river and he insta-shoves all in for his remaining 120ish...I just have him covered.

Thoughts here

?

GTA Poker · Mar 02,2009, 03:25 AM

Your stack is 240 preflop I assume.

Flop pot is roughly 100 I bet 70 and ship on the turn HU...this is without being able to get any reads other than what you have provided.

How is the poker room in Penticton, any bigger games running regularly?

pokerJAH · Mar 02,2009, 07:49 AM

I hope he raised you on the turn with the flush draw; don't know if I would be raising with KK in this spot. Too many hands that beat you. Why not check, let the other guy bet and you can decide if you want to make the call. The call on the flop is a very bad sign.

westside8 · Mar 02,2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihaveyourname

Button: Hyper aggressive big stack (1300+) regular. Been raising every pot with limpers in it, calling most bets/raises to see the flop then betting big to push everyone out..

Is there a reason why you're not limping with the rest if you say that the LAG button has been raising EVERY pot with limpers?

As played, bet bigger on flop.
And he can't raise to $75 on turn when you bet $40 (unless you guys have some weird house rules on raising can be less than double of original bet). Oh..and ship the turn over his raise.

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA Poker

Your stack is 240 preflop I assume.

Flop pot is roughly 100 I bet 70 and ship on the turn HU...this is without being able to get any reads other than what you have provided.

How is the poker room in Penticton, any bigger games running regularly?

In retrospect, yep, I agree...I thought about this hand a lot over the weekend...and the 4.5 hour drive home...

They only had 1/2 tables when I was there. Kelowna is supposed to be getting a card room, as well as Vernon...maybe bigger games will crop up?

Quote:

Is there a reason why you're not limping with the rest if you say that the LAG button has been raising EVERY pot with limpers?

Yeah, this was another thing I thought about afterwards..being new to cash tables, I think I was a bit nervous, and just wanted them to know I was playing the hand...I did know he would call...but also thought, if an ace came out on the flop...I wanted to be able to represent..

Quote:

And he can't raise to $75 on turn when you bet $40 (unless you guys have some weird house rules on raising can be less than double of original bet).

You are correct, I think I must have bet 30 or 35 again..like I said..numbers weren't exact..

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 10:09 AM

Now for my thought process...lol after the ship on the river.

I knew Hyper would call, so I wasn't too worried preflop about him, nor really was I worried about the new guy, as I had seen him make and call a few raises and let hands go..

After the flop...hyper let go of the hand...and new guy calls...He didn't insta call, he thought about it..And when he called initially for the 28 extra, I figured PP or big ace..he isn't that large of a stack to put over 10% out there on hoping to hit something funny...

flop 7 Q 7. I thought that was a pretty good flop for me once hyper folded to me. Again, my thoughts of big ace or pp came back to me. I didn't think QQ as he likely would have reraised preflop? I didn't feel A7 for 28 bucks, nor A7 suited...it just didn't feel like it..I really thought AJ-AK....probably not AK..but not going to rule it out..and after he calls here on the flop, I figure AQ-KQ-JQ is a pretty likely holding...

The club comes on the turn and he reraises...and yeah I should have shipped..not entirely sure what I was thinking here..need one of those Gus Hansen recorders..I really didn't think flush here, as he called pre and post flop without the second club
In the meantime..I have also thought about 10Q, JQ, KQ..but again...until the flop club came out...didn't really perceive him on the flush as well..bad thinking on my part no doubt...

I didn't take that long to call his raise, and think I did so quite confidently to let him know I thought I was still good.

River club...he got red in the face and insta shoved.

Now I think to myself..did I just let him draw a flush on me? Again, I ruled out QQ, I ruled out x7 holdings.. and now my thoughts focused on XQ holdings that were clubs..so, I thought AcQc first...but if he just made nut flush, why would he shove me off the pot when I am aggressor? Same with any flush when clearly I have been betting all the way through and that wasn't my draw? I figured that, after the other club on the river hit he decided to use it as a scare..

I figured there was about 420ish in the pot now with his shove and my 120ish would make just about 600...4-1 almost..again rough calculations in my head...120ish was mine...300 profit..

Then I thought about his other pushes at the other table I saw..where he insta shoved with nothing to try to buy...

This was over the course of several minutes that I mulled this all over...and after apologizing to everyone for taking so much time...I could only put him on XQ holdings and the river club was a bluff-shove....I finally decided that I had my other buy in still in my pocket, and that I had to make the call....and turned over my kings.

Quote:

The call on the flop is a very bad sign.

I honestly took that as a good sign of smaller pair or hitting the queen...as it made sense in my mind to what I thought were his holdings.

When I called and pushed the chips in, he instantly dropped his head, nodded as if to say "nice call" and insta mucked without looking at my Kings...I should have asked to see his cards I guess, but by the time the dealer got to the cards he had already left the table...I wasn't too concerned.then....but would like to know now..lol

I do realize I could have played that hand much better...but was pretty happy my thought processes brought me to the right conclusion..

I ended up spending 8 hours on the table...making one really bad chip spew for 200, with of course...JJ...but made it back and cashed out the night with 960...800 profit.

One other question that I won't bother starting a new thread on...

In this hand...his chips were all out neatly stacked in the middle...mine were all pushed out neatly over the line...the dealer, when putting them back in front of me..decides to wipe all the stacks over...and let me restack everything....is that normal? She could easily have slid his stacks over and left mine exactly where they were in front of me....

pokerJAH · Mar 02,2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

I hope he raised you on the turn with the flush draw; don't know if I would be raising with KK in this spot. Too many hands that beat you. Why not check, let the other guy bet and you can decide if you want to make the call. The call on the flop is a very bad sign.

betting on the flop was fine (more is better) but that raise on the turn is what would have concerned me. Most of the time I see someone push, they usually have a decent hand, especially at 1/2. Its hard to get away from a $480 pot for $120 more.

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 12:51 PM

I thought about that...and what I came up with..was..it was only basically a min raise...and if I had AQ there...what would I do? I would probably raise to try and get away from giving the aggressor another card..if I think I am best..with the 30 raise pre, and 30 bet...maybe he puts me on AK or AQ?..Like I say..I am sure I need more practice..and likely more beats..to handle this situation better...but that was where I put him at this point...it worked out..but, still...I know it could have been done much better.

pokerJAH · Mar 02,2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihaveyourname

I thought about that...and what I came up with..was..it was only basically a min raise...and if I had AQ there...what would I do? I would probably raise to try and get away from giving the aggressor another card..if I think I am best..with the 30 raise pre, and 30 bet...maybe he puts me on AK or AQ?..Like I say..I am sure I need more practice..and likely more beats..to handle this situation better...but that was where I put him at this point...it worked out..but, still...I know it could have been done much better.

I agree, I can see someone with AQ making this raise on the turn; although I would be pretty confused with the shove (from a decent player) on the river. Most decent players don't overvalue top pair so I wouldn't put them on AQ once they pushed. Not unless they had AQc and then I'm pretty well fucked.

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 01:51 PM

After thinking about it long...I was sure he was doing it to scare me off...if he had nut flush or second nut, why would he shove his stack and make me fold? I would have called with the boat regardless..and folded anything else..not paying him. I was the aggressor the whole hand with the exception of his raise...as well, as I said..I watched him stack off with nothing at the prior table with the same move...those two things convinced me that I was good...He also struck me as bully type...middle aged, now overweight, ex high school football jock type...lol...dressed like he was still in college...
it may not have been an EV+ move over time...which is why I was bringing it to the table to get analysis on...and how to play it better next time...

pkrfce9 · Mar 02,2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihaveyourname

In this hand...his chips were all out neatly stacked in the middle...mine were all pushed out neatly over the line...the dealer, when putting them back in front of me..decides to wipe all the stacks over...and let me restack everything....is that normal? She could easily have slid his stacks over and left mine exactly where they were in front of me....

perhaps more regular tipping would help?

DennisG · Mar 02,2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkrfce9

perhaps more regular tipping would help?

lol..better fucking not be that..or I want all the money I gave her in prior hands back. I tipped the dealer every hand I took down the pot. Two of the guys on the table, that were regulars, said something to her....she just said she was supposed to do that..?

GTA Poker · Mar 02,2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

I hope he raised you on the turn with the flush draw; don't know if I would be raising with KK in this spot. Too many hands that beat you. Why not check, let the other guy bet and you can decide if you want to make the call. The call on the flop is a very bad sign.

You play wayyyy to passively

GTA Poker · Mar 02,2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ihaveyourname

lol..better fucking not be that..or I want all the money I gave her in prior hands back. I tipped the dealer every hand I took down the pot. Two of the guys on the table, that were regulars, said something to her....she just said she was supposed to do that..?

no she isn't

pokerJAH · Mar 03,2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA Poker

You play wayyyy to passively

I think with this flop your probably right; I guess I have been burned with an over pair a few times, it still haunts me. Although his read of the player most definitely justified the all-in call. Knowing that this player has a history of shoving with air makes a big difference.

I'm more careful these days with over pairs and would rather win a small pot than risk all my chips.

On the flip side, last Friday I was in the BB and it was raised pre-flop to $12 with two other callers. I decided to call the additional $10 raise. Flop comes 99J rainbow and I check and the intial raiser makes it $50. Its folded around to me and I call the $50. Turn is a 2d and I check again which causes the initial raiser to push his last $120. I call and he flips over AA. I take down the pot with 95d. Sometimes an overpair can cost you all your chips.