SteveKerr

You have been moved a new table and maybe saw 5 or 6 hands that you did not play and they never went past the flop if they even saw the flop.

you are in the big blind and dealt A J suited, with blinds 600 - 1200 - 75ante and you have 10k in chips.

Folded to dealer who pushes all in for 5500, small blind then also pushes all in for about 13k.

I put the dealer on any 2 cards basically a face card and rag, and is trying to steal blinds and antes.

What do you do after small blind pushes and has you covered?

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Richard~

I'd fold if I've more than 15 BB's. You're rarely a big favorite against SB's range when deeper. I suppose with over 10%'s of my chips in the pot though I'd get it in, unless there's a bubble soon.

With stacks this shallow SB's likely to be shoving wide enough to make it a call. You need to make something happen when you're this short and you have decent equity against the SB's iso

DennisG

payout structure is definitely a consideration, but yeah, like Richard has pointed out..over 10% of our stack is in, and we are obviously less than 10bb...get it in and hang on..

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blackmagicz

We are drawing maybe to 3 outs. Figure short stack has Ax or Kx and SB has a pair. I don't like this spot at all in a live game based on the action before me. I rather be calling with a pair in this situation not AX with 2 people.

Richard~

Since button should be shoving wide and SB is isoing all of his calling hands he's just as likely to be the one drawing to 3 outs though (actually more likely as A2-A10 form a larger part of his range than AQ, AK and JJ+)

Tilter

^^ Agreed, SB should be iso'ing all pairs 22+, A2ss+, A6o+, K8ss+, KTo+, QJss if button is ~ATC opening. But I'm not sure enough people have very good pre-flop iso'ing ranges, so it's probably tighter than that and seeing a couple hands on the player helps. Like if I see a player open to 2.5x instead of 3x, I think they are a more thinking player about bet sizing + ranges.

DennisG

Are we drawing? Or are they? We are likely ahead in this spot much more than behind, no? There are some underlying circumstances here...like buy in.. This would/could determine the quality of play we are against. Has the original shover played any of the last five hands? did he fold his blinds? This gives us more of an indication..

But again..and maybe this is a leak of mine..well, actually, I know it is..lol..but I am calling with AJ here..because I always feel they are pushing any two in position when short...and I always feel sb is an idiot and calling with any ace...too much online? maybe..

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Richard~

What makes a big difference for me in this spot except for the fact that you're short is that SB is short meaning that his 3betting range is (or should be) the same as his calling range

SteveKerr

Tournament is a $500 buy in

Neither of these players played any hands while I was at the table. There was always raises before them where they just folded.

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BADAPPLE67

Easy one, before the bubble fold after the money call call call

DennisG

This does make a difference for me...500 says these guys aren't the "happen to be in the building, I will take a shot for 20 bucks " kind of players..They were there to play...

That being said, button just folded his two blinds to raises, he knows he is coming into position and will be in a spot to gain those back...his range is pretty wide here..gotta be 30% if not more. SB, who is also short, knows that the buttons range is big..and his calling range (same as his push range) has to be 25-30%..he shoves not expecting you to have anything.

You pick up a top 10%...how do you not call?

Wetts likely will come in here and tell us to fold because of ICM...lol As this is reminiscent of the last thread we had this type of discussion..and fair enough...I am still not good enough to fold here.

My thoughts are we are against 10Jish and Ax..if we get unlucky so be it...I feel their ranges are big...One day I will learn and actually win a decent tourney..lol

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I am not on tilt, you're just a f*cking idiot.

DennisG

You know..this has been bugging me...been sitting here trying to put myself at that table..

I think in the situation, sitting at the table...I lay it down. On paper, or reading it here, I have a hard time folding..(which should likely be opposite...)

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I am not on tilt, you're just a f*cking idiot.

iNano78

I fold and don't give it a 2nd thought.

Well, ok, I give it a 2nd thought when they flip their cards over and it turns out I had them dominated and/or the flop comes AAJ and all that... but as for in that situation, I still fold.

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GTA Poker

obv you haven't played against players that have no regard for money

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

DennisG

Everyday on the internet... but, in a live situation, I think the play, for this kind of money, is typically better than the 50 or 100 dollar buy for example. Any of the big shots with no regard for money should have already had their plates scraped clean this far in...Again...these are only my thoughts, as I haven't played that large of a buy in live personally.

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I am not on tilt, you're just a f*cking idiot.