Richard~

I'm slowly getting better at this game but I have a few questions.

1. Is this a hand I should be getting involved at all with preflop? It feels really trashy.

2. Do I call the bet on the turn with 8 outs to scoop and a couple of more to chop? How much can I call with this type of draw?

I thought it was a pretty interesting spot since most of the time I'm just valuebetting the nuts or making obvious decisions.


PokerStars Game #37641708219: Tournament #228004270, $3.00+$0.30 USD Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level XV (400/800) - 2010/01/04 19:13:05 CET [2010/01/04 13:13:05 ET]
Table '228004270 31' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: VECTOR74 (19763 in chips)
Seat 2: Obsche (18749 in chips)
Seat 3: edthemax (17611 in chips)
Seat 4: bkonto (12540 in chips)
Seat 5: LivingThing (43751 in chips)
Seat 6: IRichardI (30079 in chips)
Seat 7: Cinci024 (12287 in chips)
Seat 8: bibischa (10817 in chips)
Seat 9: danjo66 (15618 in chips)
bibischa: posts small blind 400
danjo66: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IRichardI [ ]
VECTOR74: calls 800
Obsche: folds
edthemax: folds
bkonto: calls 800
LivingThing: folds
IRichardI: calls 800
Cinci024: folds
bibischa: calls 400
danjo66: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
bibischa: checks
danjo66: checks
VECTOR74: bets 2400
bkonto: folds
IRichardI: calls 2400
bibischa: folds
danjo66: calls 2400
*** TURN *** [ ] []
danjo66: checks
VECTOR74: bets 6400
IRichardI: calls 6400
danjo66: folds
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
VECTOR74: checks
IRichardI: bets 11000
VECTOR74: folds
Uncalled bet (11000) returned to IRichardI
IRichardI collected 24000 from pot
IRichardI: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 24000 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: VECTOR74 folded on the River
Seat 2: Obsche folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: edthemax folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: bkonto folded on the Flop
Seat 5: LivingThing folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: IRichardI collected (24000)
Seat 7: Cinci024 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: bibischa (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: danjo66 (big blind) folded on the Turn

Hobbes

fold pre here.

You have a trashy one-way hand and could easily end up quartered.

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DrTyore

I like how on the turn he's counting 8 outs... lol

That's cute.

Mark

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Hobbes

Very cute.

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Richard~

That's what I though, realised the mistake after I called. Flop's nice for me though, what's my situation on the turn?

Pinhead

After the turn diamonds are no longer safe outs (at least not for the Hi)...also fold pre as your hand is fairly useless unless you make a wheel

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Richard~

I get it already, I promise to fold pre next time lol. I just got to the final table as chipleader with 800k so that's pretty nice =)


Still curious about my situation on the turn an what I can call given my draw and possible implied odds

iNano78

The problem with this starting hand is you need both an A and a 3 on board just to make the nut low, and unless you hit a straight-flush with your clubs, you're unlikely to make a nut high hand with that - at least, one that's not likely to split.

As played... On the turn, you've got 8 outs to the nut low and 6 of those give you the nut high. You'd much rather have two diamonds to go with your 2-4-5 straight draws... and a flopped set has more outs to a boat than you do to a straight (and doesn't need a low card on the river in order to scoop). You definitely don't have explicit odds on the flop or turn to call a pot-sized bet. And as far as implied odds, you're probably not going to win any more bets after the river unless you're splitting... so best to fold (1) pre-flop, (2) to a pot-sized bet on the flop, and (3) to a pot-sized bet on the turn. In the end, you got lucky that your opponent didn't have two high diamonds or the same straight as you.

I'm guessing villain had something like A3XY and knew his two-pair was no good when that 2d came.

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