adpro

After looking over this hand, I should have raised more on the turn.

Either way, it was early in the tournament and I didn't really have many good reads on the players. I knew gobuttercup was playing fairly tight, not seeing too many flops, but that's about all I knew.

The table was pretty loose in general, but there were a few tighties.

I remember thinking when I bet the 320 on the flop, I should put in a decent sized bet that will get most people out of the pot.

I want it to be either me and the guy who put his 50 all-in and take the pot down now, or me and one other person holding pocket pairs or something. I wanted all of the possible straight draws out of there, but thought someone might call with a draw. I probably should have raised more.

I figured if someone was holding pocket pairs, they would re-raise me on the flop. So, I kind of ruled that out for gobuttercup.

Either way, what hand do you think this guy had and what would have been your next move? Call or fold?


***** Hand History for Game 7364841511 *****
20/40 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (STT Tournament 41931175) - Wed Sep 10 18:23:31 EDT 2008
Table Table 127697 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: jrock156 (4420)
Seat 2: sigyn24 (1940)
Seat 3: BigYouth1 (1940)
Seat 4: butcho007 (1840)
Seat 5: adprocas (2120)
Seat 6: pkrgrl85 (1630)
Seat 7: fock10 (50)
Seat 8: Guelpen77 (2340)
Seat 9: MBullets89 (1940)
Seat 10: gobuttercup (1780)
adprocas posts small blind (20)
pkrgrl85 posts big blind (40)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to adprocas [ 6c, 7c ]
fock10 raises (50) to 50
fock10 is all-In.
Guelpen77 calls (50)
MBullets89 folds
gobuttercup calls (50)
jrock156 calls (50)
sigyn24 folds
BigYouth1 folds
butcho007 calls (50)
adprocas calls (30)
pkrgrl85 calls (10)
Creating Main Pot with $350 with fock10
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 7s, 6d ]
adprocas bets (320)
pkrgrl85 folds
Guelpen77 folds
gobuttercup calls (320)
jrock156 folds
butcho007 folds
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5s ]
adprocas bets (200)
gobuttercup raises (1410) to 1410
gobuttercup is all-In.

Wetts1012

Like the flop bet - not a great board and you want to take it now. Be carefull though this is a perfect set mining board.

His call should set off the alarms.

Turn card is dirty, dirty. When he shoves you have to go away. You're only beating teh frush draw.

Also - if you're going to lead the turn - it has to be like you mean it. Your bet sizing screams that you're uncertain about your hand. Think about it this way. If he has a drawing hand you just gave him the odds to call.

So why would he push if he didnt already have a made hand?

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pokerJAH

you took a crack at it on the flop; this idiot called your pot size raise and probably hit. Wait for a better opportunity. If he had AKd, that would be pretty funny.

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adpro

Yeah, I either should have checked the turn or bet more I feel.

Reasons.

If I check and he has nothing, he will likely check thinking I am trying to trap.

If I bet a larger amount and he has nothing, he will likely fold.

I feel that the amount of my turn bet was too small if I was going to bet, cause it does show weakness, but shows I have something.

I probably should have checked with that turn card.

Any other thoughts?

blackmagicz

If you check after the turn card you don't know where you are at if he shoves on you. At least you throw out a feeler and get a wack load of information. 90% of the time here villian has a straight and is worried about your exact holding or flush. He is not value betting here because the possibility of the higher straight still exists as well now that the board has filled with the 5.

Fold and wait for better opportunity. No point of spewing chips this early on. You will get them all back later.

adpro

Yeah, I think this was a pretty easy fold, so that's what I did.

I was frustrated after (but didn't go on tilt) because the guy had AKos.

The original raiser (50) had a pair of 4's, so we won the side pot 350.

Either way, it gave me a decent tell on this guy, but I didn't get to use it against him. I knew that he would limp in with something like AKos and try to bluff it.

Later in the tournament I knocked him out with an all-in with AQs, and he had A9os.

My lesson was forcing myself to not go on tilt after this annoying play by this guy. I was in a very similar situation with him, but with only middle pair, and folded to his better hand. I felt like calling him, but was able to listen to my common sense.

So, yeah, that was that hand. It ended up being a tilt test.

Graham

I think he sensed your weakness and when I first read the hand I thought it looked like a bluff. I don't understand why you lead out for 320 on the flop, then dropped your bet to 200 on the turn when there was already so much in the pot.

adpro

I know, I feel that was a mistake of mine.

I originally was afraid of that turn card and I showed it. I should have bet like I needed that turn card and it gave me the nuts, or I should have checked in hopes he would check back and think I was trying to trap.

Either way, the smaller bet on the turn was because I didn't like the turn card.

How would you have played it?

Graham

Well, I can't really see him having a set there with such a draw heavy board. He prob would have raised the flop. The only thing that I might think he could possibly have was 98 or some kind of flush draw. Depending on the player, if I felt he was likely to try and steal, I would have probably checked the turn, then check-raised him all-in crossing my fingers that the top 2 pair was still good. I think the huge bet on the flop kinda was a little overkill, and I personally probably would have tried to keep the pot a bit smaller. But I suck, so take my perspective with a grain of salt. I think I am usually just good at picking up on the huge bluffs.

adpro

Yeah, but at this time I had respect for the guys play. He wasn't playing many starting hands and I couldn't recall any showdowns of his.

I was putting him on a low pair (maybe hit his set), low or mid suited connectors (maybe already hit his straight), and maybe on a flush and straight draw at worst on the turn. I wasn't even considering anything TT or higher, and AK wasn't in my thoughts either. I would have expected a raise pre-flop from him, judging by his playing style I had seen already. If he raised pre-flop, I would have stayed in the hand knowing he didn't have a set or a straight.

Let me also say that if he raised pre-flop, I would have folded my hand, haha.

So, from my seat, there was no reason to assume a bluff at all. He played the hand well and got a few chips for it. I guess he's just lucky he didn't run into a total donk who would call with his two pairs. He seems like the type that can't fold his monster starting hands, yet doesn't know how to play them pre-flop. I hope I play him again soon.

Lesson learned.

Pantsonfire

I like the size of your bet on the flop. If you bet 1/2 pot into so many players just one call will iliicit a bunch of other calls and you'll have no idea what to do on the turn.

I hate knowing what the results are but my feeling was to simply shove on the turn. He had 1410 behind into a 1000 pot so a shove is not an overbet. If he has a 4 or 98 then bless him. If he has an unlikely set, then wonder why he didn't raise the turn. BTW, have paired two of the flop cards makes a set more unlikely. Hell, he could be slowplaying AA for all we know. As well, a nut flush draw and a pair would shove from his perspective.

Again, I would just shove the turn and if called hope for a lesser hand and if not you have 4 outs.

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