Where did I go wrong if at all?

Muddguts · Jul 06,2011, 05:03 PM

I know I went wrong here somewhere and I'd really appreciate it if someone smarter than I am to pointed out my err :-)

Should I have raised on flop? Should I have bet a bit bigger on turn? or should I have kept it at $3 and then bet river again? Am I getting someone off of KK at this level?

PokerStars Game #64230763820: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2011/07/06 17:01:47 ET
Table 'Arrakis VI' 9-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 6: KostyaShulga ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 7: TheHumungous ($49.50 in chips)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheHumungous

KostyaShulga: raises $1 to $1.50
TheHumungous: calls $1.50

everyone else folds

*** FLOP ***

KostyaShulga: bets $2.15
TheHumungous: calls $2.15

*** TURN ***

KostyaShulga: checks
TheHumungous: bets $3
KostyaShulga: calls $3

*** RIVER ***

KostyaShulga: checks
TheHumungous: checks

*** SHOW DOWN ***
KostyaShulga: shows

(two pair, Kings and Sixes)
TheHumungous: mucks hand
KostyaShulga collected $13.40 from pot

darbday · Jul 06,2011, 05:08 PM

how often do you think 77 is good on that flop after flatting an earlier postion lead....? like not a yes or no question what kind of hands do you think he does that with.

edit: also what positions are you in?

Richard~ · Jul 06,2011, 05:15 PM

we're playing 9max, I think realising our showdown value on the flop will be hard, so you're better off folding or making a move here or on later streets. I probably fold. then again, I probably fold pre to that stack as well

Edit: I'm really not sure wether we're floating the flop to bluff or think we have the best hand

darbday · Jul 06,2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard~

then again, I probably fold pre to that stack as well

and this

Muddguts · Jul 06,2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard~

Edit: I'm really not sure wether we're floating the flop to bluff or think we have the best chance

Well the plan on calling the flop was two fold, a) to try and peel off a set and hope he has a strong ace or b) make the call on the c-bet and see if he slows down on the turn and then try and take it away which we both did but obv it failed.

I am quite surprised at two of you saying to fold preflop with a pair and at such small stakes. Care to expand on that thought of thinking? thanks!

Muddguts · Jul 06,2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbday

how often do you think 77 is good on that flop after flatting an earlier postion lead....? like not a yes or no question what kind of hands do you think he does that with.

edit: also what positions are you in?

I didn't really give thought on whether my 77 was good on that flop but probably should have. Even if he doesn't have an ace, any pair above are all feasable hands for the raise and have me crushed. Must start thinking in this way, could of saved the $5. Position was opponent UTG+1 and me UTG+2. I had position

Richard~ · Jul 06,2011, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddguts

I am quite surprised at two of you saying to fold preflop with a pair and at such small stakes. Care to expand on that thought of thinking? thanks!

you just don't really have the implied odds to setmine vs him here. He has what, 12-14x behind, I'm usually aiming for ~20+ times the investment

darbday · Jul 06,2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddguts

I am quite surprised at two of you saying to fold preflop with a pair and at such small stakes. Care to expand on that thought of thinking? thanks!

ya i don't think its crazy but i think there are too many behind to act, and you can't really call a raise.

I learned it from Rich's posts...

i was using 10x for my set mines but i think its too small.....

darbday · Jul 06,2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddguts

I didn't really give thought on whether my 77 was good on that flop but probably should have.

even if you plan to make him fold you still have to consider you equity for the times he doesn't

i think its important you actually tell yourself his range 'aloud' kinda so you can stove it......it will give you perspective even if your range is off....and i think its the answer to your question.

you mentioned drawing to a 7 on the turn.....the odds for flopping a set are 1 in 7 or so....for the turn its one chance instead of 3 on the flop...so 1 in 21 i think?)....which you don't have the odds for and will never really get odds for ....thats important..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muddguts

I had position

in order to use it i think you need to min raise the flop....its daring but sometimes it works...not even sure its profitable though.....no shame in set mining and then check folding missed flops..thats profitable if you give yourself enough implied stack odds vs strong ranges.

Vekked · Jul 16,2011, 02:07 PM

It has less to do with the level you're playing and more to do with the fact that you bet $3 into like $8 or something re: him not folding KK. I don't think anyone decent would/should fold to that bet-size, He only had to be right 1/4 of the time in order for it to be a correct call, and clearly he's going to be right at least that often given the hand you showed up with. If you actually want someone to possibly fold KK here you have to bet like $6-$7 I'd say, you have to bet a size that makes it a good possibility that calling with KK is a mistake. Giving hims odds such that he only has to be right less than 1 in 4 times isn't going to do that vs. most ppl.

EDIT: And yes, probably fold pre due to lack of implied odds probs, and fold flop if he's an EP raiser usually. It's hard to say 100% if calling is fine pre or calling flop is fine or w/e without any reads, but generally if calling pre is fine because he's so tight you can stack him every time when you hit a set, then calling this flop is atrocious cuz it nails him so hard, and on the flip side if he's loose enough that calling this flop is fine, folding pre is probably best. If he's really loose then calling pre is fine but you're not set-mining, you're playing 77 for value, like if you flat a cut-off raise with 77 on the button.

darbday · Jul 19,2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vekked

EDIT: And yes, probably fold pre due to lack of implied odds probs, and fold flop if he's an EP raiser usually. It's hard to say 100% if calling is fine pre or calling flop is fine or w/e without any reads, but generally if calling pre is fine because he's so tight you can stack him every time when you hit a set, then calling this flop is atrocious cuz it nails him so hard, and on the flip side if he's loose enough that calling this flop is fine, folding pre is probably best. If he's really loose then calling pre is fine but you're not set-mining, you're playing 77 for value, like if you flat a cut-off raise with 77 on the button.

click