AK Out of Position... flop, K32

Henjon · Jun 11,2009, 10:04 AM

What do you people think about villain's way of playing the hand? Was it a nice play to just smooth call preflop (besides from the fact that it obviously worked out very well this time) or is it better even in an SnG to re-raise and try to see if you can trick your opponent to shove? (To shove yourself is not correct though I believe since if you're up against a good SnG-player with say AK, AQ or middle pocketpair (s)he will know that without reads on you as very LAG the correct play in this part of the tournament is to fold your hand, something you obviously don't want.

westside8 · Jun 11,2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henjon

What do you people think about villain's way of playing the hand? Was it a nice play to just smooth call preflop (besides from the fact that it obviously worked out very well this time) or is it better even in an SnG to re-raise and try to see if you can trick your opponent to shove? (To shove yourself is not correct though I believe since if you're up against a good SnG-player with say AK, AQ or middle pocketpair (s)he will know that without reads on you as very LAG the correct play in this part of the tournament is to fold your hand, something you obviously don't want.

I prefer re-raising preflop. Here in the second level of the SnG, you have a UTG raiser when you have a premium hand. You want to get as much money into the pot as possible...

DrTyore · Jun 11,2009, 11:23 AM

+1

I hated this AA play, especially with more than half the table behind you. Also since there's 10 players, was this a DoN?

Mark

Graham · Jun 11,2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrTyore

Also since there's 10 players, was this a DoN?

Yes, it was a DoN

DrTyore · Jun 11,2009, 01:15 PM

I'm not quite sure if that makes it better or worse then.. thoughts?

Mark

pokerJAH · Jun 11,2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmagicz

Definitely with AK out of position I look to isolate and I am looking to hit my K or A on the flop. Most times in a cash game if I miss the board after I do my isolation raise and I have a very LAGGY player I will throw out a quick feeler and then shut down on turn and river as if I get 1 bet called

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmagicz

I am in SB with AK, 4 people have limped, button raises to 50 (standard position raise from button). I will re-raise to 200 to push out the limpers and see if they actually have a hand in the bush so to speak.

Now the board comes K23

I lead out 350 into the pot (it is now 600) leaving me 450 behind.

Thanks for the detailed response; I usually play AK a lot less aggressively. To me, its needs to improve before it has much value. I definitely would not re-raise to 20BB after a 5BB raise. I like to see the flop and then decide where I stand. If I am the first to act, I will usually raise AK 70% of the time and just call the other 30% (more raising with AK suited).

In your example, if you miss the flop completely, what kind of feeler bet are you making? with the 350 bet (when you hit), you are really committed to this hand no matter the outcome. If the feeler bet is another $200, you have risked 40% of your stack, out of position, with A high.

blackmagicz · Jun 11,2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

Thanks for the detailed response; I usually play AK a lot less aggressively. To me, its needs to improve before it has much value. I definitely would not re-raise to 20BB after a 5BB raise. I like to see the flop and then decide where I stand. If I am the first to act, I will usually raise AK 70% of the time and just call the other 30% (more raising with AK suited).

In your example, if you miss the flop completely, what kind of feeler bet are you making? with the 350 bet (when you hit), you are really committed to this hand no matter the outcome. If the feeler bet is another $200, you have risked 40% of your stack, out of position, with A high.

For most games I play to knock anyone out of a pot you have to put in a sizable bet so 20BB is not uncommon in games I play, some people even may shove preflop just to take down the pot right there.

With regards to missing the flop it is really read dependant on who essentially has come into the pot with me and what kind of range they give me when the flop hits. Sometimes I may check the flop OOP heads up and then stab at the turn hoping that the villian thinks I have a monster and I don't mind him/her trying to catch up. Usually I will only barrel with certain board textures (basically paint) because my image in games I play is one of very tight and aggressive so if the board comes 682 they know I have not hit any piece of that and will call me down very light (I will 100% barrell at those flops with an over pair, but that is a separate discussion)

As noted if I do hit I am essentially committing myself to the pot, I have evaluated the action and as pointed out earlier I am most likely way ahead and people need to draw to catch up. I don't mind committing myself to pots that I know I have played well and if someone gets lucky so beat it, but I am looking at the long term profitability of my play.

One has to remember as well there are a lot of variables that go into this type of play and really you have to develop a good image to be able to make these moves. I also have to give up a lot of hands as well where I could peel for a card on the turn but I fold to give myself the image of the "nuthugger" which benefits me when I c-bet flops that potentially could have hit my range even though I missed totally.