Right line? or..

DennisG · Aug 21,2009, 04:03 PM

do I let it go after the river bet?

Villian is about 10/7 over about 35 hands..so I know he is strong when he calls the preflop raise..

Full Tilt Poker Game #14176665619: $50 + $5 Sit & Go (104392296), Table 1 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 15:51:27 ET - 2009/08/21
Seat 1: mrbuckeye (1,320)
Seat 3: Bcboy72 (3,475)
Seat 4: superman408 (1,545)
Seat 6: DieselPhil (4,070)
Seat 7: SorenKongsgaard (1,690)
Seat 8: grimshaw_74 (1,400)
grimshaw_74 posts the small blind of 30
mrbuckeye posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bcboy72 [Qh Ad]
Bcboy72 raises to 180
superman408 folds
DieselPhil calls 180
SorenKongsgaard folds
grimshaw_74 folds
mrbuckeye folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Jc 4s]
Bcboy72 checks I don't cbet here hoping for a free card with my history of check raising..as well..JJ, KJ and AJ are all in his range
DieselPhil checks
*** TURN *** [3d Jc 4s] [Ac]
Bcboy72 checks
DieselPhil bets 240
Bcboy72 calls 240 didn't feel comfortable check raising here..should I?>
*** RIVER *** [3d Jc 4s Ac] [2h]
Bcboy72 checks
DieselPhil has 15 seconds left to act
DieselPhil bets 540 Do I feel like I am beat here? yeah...kinda..likely AK or AJ?? Do we let it go?
Bcboy72 calls 540

darbday · Aug 21,2009, 07:17 PM

QQ too maybe I would think a 3/4 sized defensive bet on the river would do the trick...hard to call a re raise is all but i think it sends the message you have a decent Ace at least, and give the impression of a made hand value bet

blackmagicz · Aug 22,2009, 11:22 AM

Here is the thing with this hand. I think a little more pot control is necessary. I would lead on the turn because if he does have AJ you are a huge dog, if he has AK (which his play is too passive for, I think AK re-raises to isolate instead of just flatting in that spot preflop). Check calling does not give you information about his hand. I rather check call the river, than check call a turn.

As played it smells like villian has a pocket pair, unless he is betting AJ for value hoping you had AK/AQ.

AQ is usually a sticky spot anyway you play it, especially on that board.

DennisG · Aug 22,2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackmagicz

Here is the thing with this hand. I think a little more pot control is necessary. I would lead on the turn because if he does have AJ you are a huge dog, if he has AK (which his play is too passive for, I think AK re-raises to isolate instead of just flatting in that spot preflop).

I figured check calling was more pot control than him coming over the top, no? I suppose that would give me the info I need though, I bet the turn small, he raises..I fold? and I know what I need...what if he just calls? check call the river at that point, fold to a bet? Is AQ and easy fold here? I almost felt as if we had the same hand..but really felt I was beat...so..do we fold the 540 with that feeling?

blackmagicz · Aug 22,2009, 02:14 PM

I think because it is such a combo draw heavy board any villian would want to try to push you out of the pot. I guess the way the hand played out you have to ask yourself "what do you think the villian put you on?"

As played AQ is not an easy fold here as I would likely call but at the same time I don't think you beat many hands here (even combo draws such as Ax where X completed straight draws. Almost leads me to believe that he did lead out on the turn with a pair and a draw and maybe gets there on the river with the value bet)

I guess the reasoning for betting the turn is because if he re-raises you and you just call you are more likely to get a check on the river he is on AK anything else will be pounding the river which defines his hand more.

I still call AQ as played in this situation and pay off either 2 pair or the Ax straight on the river.

syphilaids · Sep 22,2009, 05:43 PM

I think avoiding a cbet on that flop is fine. You'll be raised a lot by all pp's or bluffed. The board is awful dry though so when you hit your ace you should bet that turn unless you're trying to slow play, and since you have no real information on villian you must bet. If you get called, you can check/call the river pretty comfortably.
The question really is what does villian put you on? 88-TT? Ax? if he really made a monster on the river I think he should just shove or make a small raise thats likely to get c/r. His pretty value bet on the river almost seems like a desperation value bet trying to scare of weak aces. I may have reversed thinking and over thought about it but thats my opinion.

T8urmoney · Sep 22,2009, 07:00 PM

The problem as played, is that you have no idea what villain is holding, so I think you must call river, as you can beat better than 40% of range.

I like betting turn, then react with villains action after that, as you'll have a better idea his range. I don't like check raising turn, pot gets too big for you hand.

If you make it to river, likely check call at best, if draws appear to miss.