Quinner

It seems like all I post are hands where I'm making mistakes, but this hand I think I played correctly and villain actually had plenty of opportunity to get me off it. Too bad for him though.

PokerStars Game #26605248990: Tournament #152486293, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/04/01 12:08:24 ET
Table '152486293 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Quinner777 (7740 in chips)
Seat 3: Aylindirk (2932 in chips)
Seat 4: jjitsu (2828 in chips)
jjitsu: posts small blind 75
Quinner777: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [Ah 4c]
Aylindirk: folds
jjitsu: raises 150 to 300
Quinner777: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Jd 7h Js]
jjitsu: checks
Quinner777: bets 300
jjitsu: calls 300
*** TURN *** [Jd 7h Js] [Qh]
jjitsu: checks
Quinner777: bets 450
jjitsu: calls 450
*** RIVER *** [Jd 7h Js Qh] [Ac]
jjitsu: checks
Quinner777: bets 1050
jjitsu: raises 728 to 1778 and is all-in
Quinner777: calls 728
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jjitsu: shows [9c 9h] (two pair, Jacks and Nines)
Quinner777: shows [Ah 4c] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)
Quinner777 collected 5656 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5656 | Rake 0
Board [Jd 7h Js Qh Ac]
Seat 1: Quinner777 (big blind) showed [Ah 4c] and won (5656) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 3: Aylindirk (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jjitsu (small blind) showed [9c 9h] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Nines


First off let me try and tell you what he I think he did bad. First, not betting enough pf with the 9's, he should make me scared to play my A4. Secondly, leading out on the flop, or at least check raising. He has no clue where he's at in the hand if he keeps blindly calling. Also this flop is a great one for his hand. It's pretty unlikely I have a jack or a higher pair and he should be check raising this spot like always. After his bad flop play his turn decision becomes harder. The turn is a bad card for him, so he just calls to try and see a showdown. The ace on the river should pretty much tell him he's beat. Not to mention the increase in my bet size (oops). So I don't understand his check raise when one of the worst possible cards hits on the river.

Although I am checking down any non ace rivers, because I doubt he would fold to any river bet I made as we can see in this situation, so no point bluffing if that Ace didn't hit. Anyway, better aggression from me everyone?? I hope so. It certainly seemed to pay off in this situation.

Graham

You got lucky, nice work!

Quinner

Lmao....thanx......i think?

Monteroy

A more likely analysis of this hand is

For opponent:

Ooh 99 good pretty hand

Flop comes which does not matter

Ooh 99 good pretty hand

Turn comes which does not matter

Ooh 99 good pretty hand

River comes which does not matter

Ooh 99 good pretty hand


For you:

Flop comes:

I put my opponent on putting me on putting him on putting me on such so if I multi barrel bluff him I can take the pot

Turn comes:

See flop analysis

River comes:

See flop analysis and add in the 3 out luck . Win pot.


Cliff notes: You created an imaginary complex scenario in your head which lead you to bluff at a calling station then you got lucky. Maybe avoid doing that in future.

blackmagicz

Ok as it seems to be a daily "fill my leak" session with you (which btw don't take offence to my off colour comment, I don't mind at all cause if I did I just wouldn't post)

What did range of hands did you put the villian on? Also with the board paired did you ever think at any point you could be drawing slim to dead?

I realize its a low level tourney and for the most part people play their hands face up but keep those things in the back of your head when pounding the flop with bets like this.

Always ask yourself what their bets/calls mean. That is the best way to figure out what they could possibly be holding. As you move up in the levels and buy ins you will find tricky opponents will let you use rope to hang yourself in situations like this.

Figure at this blind level:

Any ace or any king is shoving preflop into you (hoping you don't wake up with a monster to call off about 30% of your stack)

Any pair is looking for some chip extraction.

Keep that in mind when playing the last legs of a tourney.

Cheers and good work....keep it up!

BBC Z

I disagree about 85% of your analysis of what your villian did wrong.

I really got a kick out of this one.

Aside from the river, I see nothing wrong with Villians play. He's trying to get to showdown cheap.

__________________
13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.

Quinner

*Sighs* Alright it's not good that when I think I'm doing something right, I get like 15 posts that no wait wait, I don't think your right at all!

This is getting really frustrating, I want to post a hand with some confidence where I'm like gtfo I know what I'm doing here kinda confidence. I guess I just need to think about things harder.

So you all don't mind villain's play? (Minus the river) I think my line with 9's here would be, make it 600 to go pre-flop, lead out flop get re-raised fold, get flatted....try and see a showdown cheap?

What about the intial min raise, would you all do that with 9's as well? I guess I just misunderstood the min-raise for some kind of weak attempt at a steal.

And Blackmagicz thanks for all your help lately! Hopefully the leaks will be plugged soon lol doubt it though but I'll keep trying.

Wetts1012

Think about this line relative to stack sizes.

1) You have 2800 to start, and raise to 600 (2200 back)
2) Your lead on the flop would have to be min. 700, leaving you 1500
back. At this point you're in. See how planning to fold to a shove is
no good here?

__________________
Waking Up In The Morning and Pissing Excellence

blackmagicz

Don't try to run before you can crawl....keep posting and we will keep answering....any critiques you get just pull information from and take it at face value. Don't take people's words to heart as they are just being as objective as they can be.

I learned that a while back here, no one sugar coats anything. You get the blunt truth and just go with it.

Quinner

This is a good point. Let's switch and say I'm the villain. My trouble then is that when the blinds get this high, my options go way down. So what do I do if I picked up 9's? Raise preflop and then check flop and hope he doesn't bluff at me if I miss? That doesn't seem right either. It just seems like any post flop bet I could make, pretty much commits me. But if I check I'm so easily bluffed off a possible best hand.

Wetts1012

You have 9's 3-handed with like 18BB. Ideally you want to get it in here. If Im villain, here's my line.

1) 400-450 PF (2400) behind. I get called.
2) That flop really doesnt scare me. Checking here makes sense to me. I am more concerned if big stack checks behind. If big stack bets I am shoving.

__________________
Waking Up In The Morning and Pissing Excellence

blackmagicz

+1

At that point I even stop and go and shove no matter what hits the flop. Most likely big stack would be playing back at me with any sort of hand worth calling with. (IE 2800 is not enough to scare me and to be calling a substantial raise if I am chip leader is incorrect, I will be folding or shoving on short stack instead)

Quinner

Ok I need to understand this thinking behind the stop and go.

Flop comes non scary J7J, I (personally) would bet here every time the thinking being that if he checks behind he gets a free card. I don't like giving free cards.....I still don't get why both of you guys say check in this spot. Whats the point? If he's got you beat and bets, you're shoving anyway. And if he checks he could hit one of his outs on the turn

We're just checking hoping he makes a play at this pot?

The queen turn is a sucky card as well.

blackmagicz

I was saying if I had 99 and I had a big stack call me in position with that flop and me holding 99 I shove there and hope he missed the board. There is so much dead money in the middle its easier for me to pick up the chips than the big stack call off an additional amount of his stack on a hope and dream with A high....

Back to your specific scenario and reasoning, the short stack is not making a play at this pot, he has a pair, his play preflop identified his basic range. You played to see a flop which is fine but once you miss you have to release. You essentially played for 2800 chips with Ace high, and basically on that flop had 3 outs, not too mention you could have been drawing dead (if he had a J or 77)

Quinner

Should I change the name of this thread to Quinner played this badly?? :P