luckystrike

I tend to play tournies mostly but with the big ones going sometimes 4-5 hours and at times you can win very little just barely making the money, are cash games a must to get a profit??

Just recently I've become comfortable with a style and have been making it pretty deep, so I'm going to play as many tournies as I can and see what happens.

I don't mind cash games but I guess I can't get my mind off the actual dollar figures.

esool

Then you are not ready for cash games. Stick with tourneys for now.

GTA Poker

It's funny to hear this, when I started playing poker (well, this is still true except for the limits), I found low limit (4 8 and 5 10) cash games to be the best way to make money and would look at a tournament as a short-term losing investment. It's hard to think that there are new players that are making money solely playing tournaments unless they have a lucky day at the outset to establish a reasonable bankroll. Even this early-hit players more often than not lose back all of their big cash-out and more due to self-delusion and lack of knowledge of bankroll requirements.

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

haddon

The dollar figures are hard to wrap your head around IF you are playing with money you likely shouldn't be playing with. Poker is poker, I agree a cash game player is different in certain elements than a tourny player, but the major elements are there. If you are playing the correct stakes for your bankroll; staying patient, reading well and leaving yourself outs will be just as natural as they are in a tourny. The beauty of a cash game is if you win a few big hands you can coast and be sure to leave up money. There are no blind levels and not that mant all ins representing AA while you are looking at KK.

A chip is a chip, a stack is a stack and cards are cards. If anything you should be more relaxed in a cash game. If you really are comfortable with your style you should be fine.

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roketinpoket

I think the major difference is that there are alot of limit cash games available and most of the tournies are no-limit.

AcidJoesHoe

I for one love to play cash games. I find in tourneys everyone is more tense, they want to make the final table. As in cash games the players are more relaxed and enjoy themselves more and have fun with it. Tourneys are great for me to learn Patience, get a feel for the players and learn more about the game. I have played with a few people from here, and find there tourney play way different then there cash game play. As for losing money, one thing i have learned is, you have to lose some before you win some. So what i pay for a tourney I sometimes end up getting it back from the side games.

As for profits, Well lets just say i enjoy playing the game. If i make some i always put it back into another game down the line. Am I out to make big bucks playing poker, Hell no.. It is the fun of the game and people I meet and if i win a few bucks along the way great.
I think alot of people think playing poker is all about the money. I used to think that when i first started playing too. Now it is, 25 bucks for tourney and a night out ... Cheap night out..

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beanie42

Not "a profit", but a regular profit, yes. If you are honest about your odds of winning an MTT, they won't occur frequently. And most payout structures are geared to the final table. Being ITM isn't going to increase your bankroll very quickly.

Then start at lower limits that you can get your head around. I started playing cash games about 3 months ago at micro-limits (.01/.02 up to .05/.10) and my entire buy-in was what my blinds are now. I couldn't have handled the actual $$$ amounts then either, but I got used to it and slowly worked my way up. Trust me, it doesn't take long to get desensitized (just be sure to have a bankroll strategy in place BEFORE this happens ).

That would be me - Mr. Lucky. I won a $40 freeroll followed by a 3rd place for almost $600 which established my bankroll (I've never deposited). However, through a few friends and the forum I was able to learn enough not to blow it (and get advice when I was about to), although it would have been very easy to do without some discipline. Even now, it's hard to stay disciplined since it would be so easy to move "just" 1 level beyond my means (but that way leads to quick destruction through a few bad beats). It bears repeating - be sure to have a bankroll strategy in place BEFORE this happens!

Disagree - I play NL cash games and there's no shortage of them.

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)

roketinpoket

I was just saying that you don't find too many limit tournies, not that there might be a shortage of NL cash games.

Metro

There is a definite advantage to the online cash game scene compared to the similar real life/online tournament scene.

The big advantage of the online cash game is the vast number of tables available at the click of your mouse.

Everyone plays a different style of poker - and has a preferred type of opponent. You can very easily regulate this with online cash games - online cash games allow you to choose the type of opponent you prefer.

For example: When you play online SNGs you may find a table very easy to beat one game; but very hard the next. However, you cannot change this after the buy-in - you are committed.

But online cash games are quite different - you can get out at anytime - and conversely you can stay as long as you like.

I can generally determine within a few orbits whether or not the table I am at is well suited to my playing style - if after 30 mins the table isn't profitable I can simply leave and find one that is.

Be selective and patient in your choice of cash game table - pick opponents you play well against - it is a definite advantage of the online cash game!

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In the poker game of life - women are the rake.

Big E

Very good point Tom and a key to success!!!

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I have a simple philosophy: Fill what's empty. Empty what's full. Scratch where it itches.

luckystrike

thanks all for the input i guess i'll just have to be more disciplined playing cash, cause with tourney there is a goal which is to make top ten, so you grind it out. In cash it's more difficult to see the actual goal and at the same time I've taken some bad beats that killed my whole buy in.

beanie42

Great point (and one I sometimes forget ... then I get a costly reminder).

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)

beanie42

It's easier if you remember the goal is actually making correct decisions (profits are simply a symptom). If you are making good decisions and you suffer a bad beat, rebuy and win back your money.

Also, accurate tracking of your play (hand histories) and your sessions is a must. For on-line, you can't go wrong with PokerTracker. Being able to see your long-term profits during a short-term losing streak really helps (as does seeing all the times your AA actually does hold up).

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)

luckystrike

I've started tracking my win/loss on excel before I was winning and losing all over the place.

Anyhow how would poker tracker really actually help? Does it help you see what are good starting hand for yourself?

Just wondering for some examples

beanie42

It can show you your win/loss rates for specific periods of time (specific day, week, etc.), limits, sites, etc.Â* It will also allow you to view your results by starting hand (how much you make with AA) and position (how much you lose UTG).Â* It also tracks your opponents, which helps when multi-tabling (quickly identify good/bad players).Â* Basically, it helps track your financial results, your play, and the play of your opponents.

They do have a free demo which works for 1000 hands at http://www.pokertracker.com/download.html so you can try it out first.

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)