Dead Money

This is not a bad beat story. I talked it over with a few people, How would you play it

7 handed 2-5 NL.

As a backround I play alot of limit, and not to much NL, but this hand confused me.

This hand is has 6 players, I am BB + 3. First two players call, I have 4,5 suited and call. Button calls and so do the blinds. Flop comes 10, 4, 5 rainbow. BB makes it $ 20, fold, fold, I call, button makes it 100.

The button is a very active and agressive player that has been pushing the table since the start of the game. He raises with medium pairs and two high cards.

I called. First question= Right or Wrong and why?

Thanks for your input.

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pokerJAH

with a LAG player I would likely raise with two pair at this point. What are the starting stacks of the remaining players? Would he raise with trips in this situation? I would not call in this situation with two pair on the flop. If you had raised on the flop, it might have given you the information you needed if he re-raised.

m_dolens

bottom two pair = bet/raise. i almost always play this hand aggressively, especially against a LAG

_obv_

Im looking to get as much money in as i can on that flop

BBC Z

Guesstimate of stack sizes?

Why is everyone advocating blowing the lag away on the flop? he's got a single pair AT or better.

Call the flop, check the turn and re-raise him all-in.

LAG != Stack-Off Calling Station

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wader

Semi-Agree, you will rarely see 104 or 105 here, possibly he has the same hand as you or some sort of str8 draw. An aggresive player on the button is probabbly going to be raising A10 and possibbly any 10 paint pre. Im leaning towards more of a str8 draw hand so I am going to call his raise and weak lead the turn of a non 8 or 3 to induce and call a jam. If he just calls behind i see what the river brings, if you think he will bluff a miss then check call.

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pokerJAH

Make him pay to see another card. Why let him hit his trips, etc. with a free card? The next two cards may scare him away if a flush or straight draw come by the river and he may not pay you off anyways.

ReefAquarium

We need to know the stack sizes to answer this question correctly.

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BBC Z

Because he has the ability to fold. I think you people forget that even bad players know when they're beat.

The Hero read is that villian is a LAG. What do lags do wrong? They take weak hands and play them very aggressively. Why would you then not allow him to hang himself by exploiting his lag tendencies? Why do we suddenly want to conveniently convert him into a calling station?

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Dead Money

Pre flop, I had $ 1900.00 to his $ 1200 - 1300. All other players had under $ 400.

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Dead Money

funny that someone mentioned the A 10, as the turn was a A and I checked and he bet $ 300.00................

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pkrfce9

i would say he is not as likely to have AT since he prob would have raised PF with that, given your description.

as to your flop decision, if he is bluffing (or on a weak 1 pair hand), i would not expect him to put any more in the pot, unless he reads he can push you off a weak holding on a scare card. no sense giving him a free card to beat you, especially since you are so friggin deep. for this reason i would raise him on the flop. bottom 2 is a very precarious holding. yes, you could play it slow and have him bluff off more but you've got 240BBs at risk. if you are comfortable calling all the way to the river for 240BBs then my hat is off to you.

if he hit a set on the flop, would he raise big on a relatively dry board? i suppose he would if he thought he'd get callers then he should build a bigger pot. he can't be too afraid of someone drawing out on him though. (he's more likely to be playing 23 or 67 than the others in the hand.)

if he puts you on some weak ten, then the ace is a scare card.

hands you are behind on the flop: TT, 55, 44, T5, T4. (TT i discount as i expect he raises PF with this. there is only 1 combo of 55 and 1 of 44. T5 and T4 are the most likely candidates if you are beat AND there are less combos of this because of your holding - 6 of each).

hands he's (semi-)bluffing with on the flop: 66-99, 22, 33, A5, A4, A3, AT, KT, QT, JT, 76, 32 (any of these except the bigger cards are likely as he would have raised with these PF, possibly he would have raised with the PP too). i'm not going to give you a count but suffice it to say, way more than the hands he's beating you with. i'm guessing with this type of player, he raises fairly often PF with most of those ace combos, too, so i'm going to discount those a bit too.

so, if he is ahead on the turn, he was ahead already on the flop or the ace gave him a higher 2 pair or the wheel. so it comes down to reads. the only hand i realistically think he could have and be ahead is 32.

if you are confident you are ahead and/or willing to risk your stack, just jam here. if you just call, he's basically got a freeroll for about 800 bucks to outdraw you since you'll pretty much have to call the river too. if he doesn't outdraw you, he's not putting another dime in, unless he gets some crazy read that you would fold getting better than 2:1 on that call.

i expect you are ahead often enough to justify jamming the turn. if you get called you are almost always behind but i doubt you get called more than about 20%.

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m_dolens

pardon? sometimes i have no idea what you mean. (okay, more than sometimes). why do bad players know when they're beat? not all of them do. in fact a lot don't and that's what makes them bad? also, who said this LAG was a bad player? did i miss that? or are just all LAGs bad players?

SirWatts

I'd just raise the flop the first time around usually. As played either just call him down and let him keep bluffing it off or if he's really crazy you could try making some slly raise to like 240 and hope it induces him to do something really stupid, but then you run the risk of getting a whole ton of money in dead. The A is a pretty gross turn card your decision is really player dependant. A lot of players play very aggressive early in the hand but when they bet big on the turn or river almost always have the goods. I don't hate folding here even though maybe he just think the A is a scare card he can rep or something basic like that but if you want to continue you must check/call down to let him fire another big bluff. 300 into 250 pot or whatever is a pretty huge bet though that a *seemingly* aggressive player might only actually make with a monster.

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Juggling man

I agree with those saying that you should let the LAG do the work for you. See the turn. If it's not making him a hand lean into him.