For the next time that a raid occurs, wasting our hard earned tax dollars, I submit the following for your use:
Dear Editor:
There have been a number of articles in your publication of late detailing the arrests of patrons, and owners, of so-called "underground" gambling halls, more specifically poker clubs. A common thread that runs through these reports is the allegation by police that huge sums of money are being made by the operators of these clubs. Further reading of these reports, however, shows very minimal amounts of cash being seized with each raid. Another common element is the months of investigation that is required before warrants are served, and raids carried out. This would seem to indicate a significant allocation of resources and manpower to these investigations by the police. A pattern seems to have emerged from these reports. Namely weeks, if not months, of investigation, followed by a few raids which will apprehend a relatively small number of people, and an even smaller amount of illicit funds.
My question is: Why? Since the province already sanctions the activity (poker) being carried out within these clubs in it's own casinos, it cannot be a moral issue. If it is a question of licensing, or tax revenue, then why not open up the system to accommodate the obvious demand that exists? If, as the police claim, these clubs are making huge sums of money, why not legitimize them and tax that revenue stream? This would have the added benefit of freeing up police resources to tackle the far more serious (to my mind) policing issues facing this province.
In conclusion, it seems to me that there is a serious cost-benefit deficit involved here. I would really like to see a more in-depth investigation of this issue by your publication, from start to finish, rather than the standard regurgitation of police press releases that seems to have become the norm.
Sincerely,
The preceding was sent via e-mail to the Star this afternoon. Lets see if they print it. Doubtful, but if we keep flooding the various outlets that report these bogus operations, maybe someone will take the ball and run with it.
__________________
Bet all you want . . . just don't bet any you want back.
For the next time that a raid occurs, wasting our hard earned tax dollars, I submit the following for your use:
Dear Editor:
There have been a number of articles in your publication of late detailing the arrests of patrons, and owners, of so-called "underground" gambling halls, more specifically poker clubs. A common thread that runs through these reports is the allegation by police that huge sums of money are being made by the operators of these clubs. Further reading of these reports, however, shows very minimal amounts of cash being seized with each raid. Another common element is the months of investigation that is required before warrants are served, and raids carried out. This would seem to indicate a significant allocation of resources and manpower to these investigations by the police. A pattern seems to have emerged from these reports. Namely weeks, if not months, of investigation, followed by a few raids which will apprehend a relatively small number of people, and an even smaller amount of illicit funds.
My question is: Why? Since the province already sanctions the activity (poker) being carried out within these clubs in it's own casinos, it cannot be a moral issue. If it is a question of licensing, or tax revenue, then why not open up the system to accommodate the obvious demand that exists? If, as the police claim, these clubs are making huge sums of money, why not legitimize them and tax that revenue stream? This would have the added benefit of freeing up police resources to tackle the far more serious (to my mind) policing issues facing this province.
In conclusion, it seems to me that there is a serious cost-benefit deficit involved here. I would really like to see a more in-depth investigation of this issue by your publication, from start to finish, rather than the standard regurgitation of police press releases that seems to have become the norm.
Sincerely,
The preceding was sent via e-mail to the Star this afternoon. Lets see if they print it. Doubtful, but if we keep flooding the various outlets that report these bogus operations, maybe someone will take the ball and run with it.
nice effort; I'm surprised none of the newspapers, etc. have done an expose on underground poker in the GTA. Would make for an interesting story. All this trouble over a $40 tourney? Must be bigger fish in the GTA to spend these resources on.
Anything considered "underground" will not be sanctioned by a govt (yes you can argue that poker is in casinos) but there are too many media stories relating underground poker clubs to illicit dealings of other nature which many of us here know not to be true.
At the end of the day the gov't has no way of regulating these small clubs properly nor do they want to take away from the ability to profit by having the avg joe goto a casino and dump money on other games while waiting to play poker.
Its unfortunate we live in times where governments do not respond to public demand but instead go along with their own agenda.
I mean, if I saw this un-tax'd revenue stream, I would milk it for all it was worth. Considering casinos only have such small poker rooms which generate a loss for the casino anyways it would be a great way to even that out.
" Considering casinos only have such small poker rooms which generate a loss for the casino anyways it would be a great way to even that out"
Facts are that the poker rooms on a square foot basis make very little compared slots. The 10% rake which has a max most of the time, can't compete with 17% from the slots which play a hand every 10 seconds.
The regulatory process is in place. They have the AGCO. The AGCO has the OGL. This is the incestuous government legislated bureaucracy meant to keep gaming under control.
As for the media, they sell advertising. "Underground poker clubs" do not buy advertising. Casinos buy a lot of advertising. They are unlikely to set that house on fire. On the contrary, the media blitz on such raids is bonus advertising for the Casinos.
We have been down that road with Fat Diamond automated poker table. Registration in Ontario for our table was $10,000.00, plus about $5,000.00 legal cost. It took a year, and when we got our registration certificate it was only good for one year. Renewal was $10,000.00 per year. It aint cheap to play with these boys.
I have no solution, just angry. As a small business man the government has been up my ass so often I think I'm loved.
Location: Milton, poker capital of the world.. after Wloo that is.
Posts: 8,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by screenman;
167678The 10% rake which has a max most of the time, can't compete with 17% from the slots which play a hand every 10 seconds.
While I certainly don't want to defend casinos, nor do I "shudder" consider slot machines as +ev, I think your 17% rake is somewhat high. See here for Vegas casinos. The worst is the airport ones at 15% rake down to "only" 7% at the Palms
However I do know for a fact that the permanent Windsor Casino, when it opened in 1998 was paying back an avg 95% of every dollar taken from slot machines (ie 5%) rake. Not sure if its changed since then...
Really not meaning to correct you but wanted to set the record straight
Facts are that the poker rooms on a square foot basis make very little compared slots. The 10% rake which has a max most of the time, can't compete with 17% from the slots which play a hand every 10 seconds.
The regulatory process is in place. They have the AGCO. The AGCO has the OGL. This is the incestuous government legislated bureaucracy meant to keep gaming under control.
Wow. I would love to see where this info comes from...Both the numbers related to the rake on slots and some kind of logic about incestuous blah blah blah...
FWIW, it is going to be very difficult to get legit poker games running outside casinos (aside from rake free home games obv) because of the publicity surrounding the game, and generally the difficulty with regulating the games.
__________________
Royal Cup I, III & IX Champs, RC IX MVP!
Banned from playing at all Ontario Casinos.
We taxpayers fail to 'understand' that big governments all over the world are merely looking out for our best interests by forcing their own ideals of 'morality' upon us mere, uninformed and ignorant citizens.
We as citizens of any big government should be SO grateful that 'they' are there for our own good, because we are too stupid to know the difference from right and wrong.
Apparently Poker player membership is far worse for society than being a card carrying member of N.A.M.B.L.A.
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