Wetbrain

I was playing at Rama a few weeks ago. I overheard an interesting conversation between a player and one of the managers. The Manager said that basically poker rooms do not make any money at the casino. Th only reason they were used was kind of a "loss leader" for the casino. E.g. you play poker and your wife/friend/girlfriend blows a lot of money on slots while you play.
Compare that with these illegal downtown Toronto clubs that are getting busted. According to the reports, police were seizing thousands of dollars from 1 poker club.
Now I know an established casino has a bit more overhead, like Managers and waitresses but can legal poker rooms really be losing money? or are illegal poker rooms, really not making much? I know the stakes at most of those card rooms are 1-2NL which is similar to casinos. Shouldn't both be making money?

AcidJoe

In most clubs the dealers etc work for tips. I believe most casinos underestimate the revenue brought in by poker. At fallsview for example each table brings in $120/hr. As a player making a minimum of $12/hr is not easy which you need to do just to break even.

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Kristy, why can't we all just get along?

pokerJAH

Ontario casinos should up their rake to help reduce the wait times; if the demand is so high in any case, the increased rake will help justify the poker rooms existence at the casino and save players having to wait around hours to play. most clubs have a higher rake than casinos. As a recreational player, I don't mind paying a higher rake to play for a couple hours while I'm at Niagara vs having to wait three hours for my name to get called. I realize this won't be a popular option for the regulars at Niagara where rake can make a difference between a profit and loss.

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Vegas June 15 -19

Big Mike

Poker rooms make money I'm sure, but they make less than filling the room with slot machines would. Depending on the level of slot machine, possibly a lot less. That's where the idea of it being a 'loss leader' comes in.
They are in some ways counting on you taking some of your winnings and hitting the blackjack/craps/whatever, in addition to the wife/gf thing.

screenman

While marketing the Fat Diamond automated poker table, I had many conversations with casino managers. In fact the poker rooms do make money, just not enough to justify the floor space when compared to slots. They are maintained for the "lost leader" value. A slot machine makes over $300.00 per hour on average I was told time and time again. Not one to accept things out of hand I took a stopwatch and timed a number of players at slot machines. The range of play was 6 plays per miniute for an older lady putting quarters in 3 at a time on an old machine, to 18 plays per minute $2.00 per play on a video style slot machine. Consider that they get 17% in Ontario and more in some States and you will see why they want the slots.

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Pesky birds... I hate poker.

Bumbaclat

loss leader. otherwise, good post.

rockspark

Filling the room with slot machines can't be the answer or they would have done it. I've never walked through a casino and seen all the slots in use. They've built these big palaces, they must be making money on everything in them.

Milo

The question is not are they making $$$ from the poker room, it's how much more could they make with whatever they replace it with? I think the main reason they keep them is to attract the broadest group of degens possible, and then hope to catch some of the "spillage" while players wait for a seat, head to the john, exit, theatre, etc.

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I don't gamble . . . but I will bet.

zunni74

It's not about making money it's about making the most $$$

Poker may make $120 an hour but that's low compared to most other table games and certainly slots.

So it's a matter of degrees, if you had the choice between making $300 an hour, or $120 an hour.. Which would you prefer?

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"...the monkey looks to make sure we are not playing limit at Brantford." - Redington

BlondeFish

WAT??
Just because the Ontario casinos are burdened with bad gambling regulations and management doesn't run the poker rooms as well as the casinos in New York, Nevada, western Canada, etc. doesn't mean you should ask to be raped with a higher rake! A higher rake will only result in more losers, while the same player-unfriendly regulations and procedures will keep 100 players waiting while there are 10 empty tables.

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May your EV always be positive.

pokerJAH

I guess the rule of supply and demand does not apply to the poker rooms. I knew that would get you going.

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Vegas June 15 -19

MickeyHoldem

Free market in-elastic non-masacistic consumers should NOT ask poorly-run-under-supplying-government-run-monopolies to apply supply/demand "rules".

pokerJAH is obviously a 13cards gimmick account!

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-- Michael
Luck is just probability taken personally!

pokerJAH

yes, I love arguing with myself... I aint no rocco!

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Vegas June 15 -19

MickeyHoldem

You're not helping your case!

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-- Michael
Luck is just probability taken personally!

FalkyBones

Are you saying the payback on slots in
Ontario is 83% ?? Where did you get this number ??