I just want to start a VERY interesting post on a poker hand I heard of recently. I will not tell you what the whole cards were until the end. This hand took place at a poker club in Toronto over the past few weeks. I do not have the name of the club, but it DID NOT happen at our club, nor would this ever take place.
Here is the hand, and I would like everyone to put there input.
Ok it is in a very actiony 5/5NL game (I was not there to witness), I do not have all the betting amount details amounts either, they are guesses and I will approxiamate them.
Ok now here is the hand, sorry for the delay.
Ok UTG raises to something like 25, late position reraises to 60, Button calls, blinds fold, and UTG calls. So roughly 190 in pot, and flop is 7 7 10 rainbow, all players check, turn is a 3, still rainbow no chance for a flush UTG bets 75, late position raises to 275, button thinks and gets time called, and eventually folds upset and folds his cards face up he has A 10 suited, UTG then thinks and goes all in, late position instantly calls. NOW, what cards do each player have.............................................. ...
UTG has pocket 7's for quads, and late position has pocket 10's for a boat.
But the dealer didn't hear late position call and mucks the deck into the muck, and the cards get mixed. Clearly the table heard the call and the late position agreed he called. He has a 0% chance to win, since his case 10 is mucked. But they must deal a river so the house says to shuffle the entire muck and burn a card and deal a river, to complete the hand. But after this the dealer peels off the case 10, to give late position quads.
The house after tons of talking and players putting in their opinion award the pot to the quad 10's as he says it was fair.
What do you think of this hand. It sounds made up and at first I thought it was until I heard it from 3 different sources.
I would not be leaving that club without that pot if I had the 7's personally.
10's get the pot.... 7's get re-imbursed by the house... dealer gets fired (or retrained) -- dealer need to muck all but the winning hand before dropping the deck and pushing the pot... When the dealer goes to muck the tens, there should be some objection and then the floor can be called and things settled while the dealer still has the deck in his hand.
ridiculous!!! imo the 77 should have gotten the pot right away, since the 1010 is drawing dead... who cares about a river card really. if they have to deal a river card they should make sure the 10 mucked by the other player isn't that card. (ie take it out of the deck to be shuffeled) I aggree, if i was the 77 i wouldn't be leaving without that pot.
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'weak tight' - 2006 Royal Cup Champions - Team Waterloo
I don't get it. The rule explicitly states what will happen should the situation occur. Quad T's win. Quad 7's shakes his fist at the sky and gets on with his life.
I do love the fact that you guys are willing to bend the rule when it was intended for this exact situation, yet in my Caesars case, it was a grey area and you wanted to follow the letter of the law in the face of the spirit.
Out of meds around here?
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13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.
All things considered, if I were the supervisor and I was called over to the table and the dealer gave me all of the information about what had occured, in the best interest of the game, I would over-ride all written rules and award the pot to the Quad 7's.
Remind me never to play where you're supervising. If I choose to play in a game, I expect it to be run as advertised (not at the whim of an over-zealous suit).
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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)
All things considered, if I were the supervisor and I was called over to the table and the dealer gave me all of the information about what had occured, in the best interest of the game, I would over-ride all written rules and award the pot to the Quad 7's.
Seems like a good reason not to play at Niagara.
If you want to over-ride the written rules in the best interest of the game, you do that out of your (the casino's) pocket, not the player who rightfully should be awarded the pot.
I would be interested in knowing if there were any explicit notes in Robert's Rules about this case where you need to reshuffle the deck but some of the cards are known to be mucked hands. I hadn't really thought about it but it seems like there should be something to clarify this type of situation.
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Royal Cup I, III & IX Champs, RC IX MVP!
Banned from playing at all Ontario Casinos.
Remind me never to play where you're supervising. If I choose to play in a game, I expect it to be run as advertised (not at the whim of an over-zealous suit).
Thanks for beating me to it Trevor :P
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Royal Cup I, III & IX Champs, RC IX MVP!
Banned from playing at all Ontario Casinos.
Sorry, I get a bit over-zealous myself when it comes to rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead
I would be interested in knowing if there were any explicit notes in Robert's Rules about this case where you need to reshuffle the deck but some of the cards are known to be mucked hands.
The only thing in Robert's I could find is:
If the deck stub gets fouled for some reason, such as the dealer believing the deal is over and dropping the deck, the deal must still be played out, and the deck reconstituted in as fair a way as possible.
So you need a river and it plays, but how to fix the deck is unwritten. In this instance the river was the case 10, meaning the pot was correctly awarded.
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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)
Just to clarify, was the A10 shown, then mucked into deck, then the deck re-shuffled and dealt. Or was it shown, then the decision to deal the last card was made and the A10 thrown into the deck?
Remind me never to play where you're supervising. If I choose to play in a game, I expect it to be run as advertised (not at the whim of an over-zealous suit).
It would be "as advertised"...
Rule #1 in our casino (and almost every one I have ever visited) states clearly "...poker room personnel (Table Games Floor Supervisors and above) reserve the right to make decisions that are in the best interest of the game, even though technical interpretation of the rules would dictate a contrary decision. The decision of the Poker Room Manager will be final."
Interestingly, I think I am a very strict, yet fair, supervisor. As this situation is not explicity covered in our rulebook, applying the rule that best covers the scenario, as well as using common sense, in the best interest of the game, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for the pocket 10's to draw out, thereby leaving the pocket 7's as the clear(?!?!) winner.
I wondered who here sitting in the position of the pocket tens could actually take the pot?
I don't think I could, I'd probably- at worst- mix the chips shipped in thoroughly with my own (no changing of minds ) and then argue my damndest to make sure the sevens got some sort of compensation from the house, and at best split the pot in some reasonable way with the sevens.
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