BBC Z

Moose, what is your plan on action? Appeal?

I mean, it's pretty obvious that it was a honest to god mistake and not an attempt at cheating. I'd consider pitching-a-bitch over at CasinoMeister over the confiscation of 9K. You may be able to get away with just forfeiture of your ticket and 10th place cash (assuming that wasn't the 9K)

Also, I think you are being very noble in confessing to the error and 'falling on your sword' but remember, the 9K isn't going to other players. It's just going directly into pokerroom's pocket. Why do they deserve to profit from your mistake and not the players?

Fight it.

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13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.

Monteroy

I believe it when he talks about his nephew playing with him in the other times it happened in the small limit tables. (though welcome to the world of having stuff like this used against you which I can understand why from their perspective even if inaccurate)

I believe him when he says he registered for this one twice by mistake.

The problem is he actively played both accounts in this, and even if he never shared a table or tried to actively take advantage of this, the problem is that it can be abused by others (ie: use one account to target certain better players on other tables to weaken the field or whatever, or just perma stall with one so that table gets very few hands in and everyone's stack suffers).

Playing deep with both is the main problem here in my mind, and I am not quite sure how that can be appealed. If he sat out with one account once he realized what happened, then I would be the first one yelling that any punishment would be unfair.

BBC Z

Let's assume that moose wanted to cheat the tournament. Why wouldn't he do it with accounts that have nothing in common with eachother? It doesn't sound logical to me that he would be actively trying to scam a tournament by being registered twice with the same account name of 'moose'. Something that is very obvious and will be noticed by everyone with basic logic skills.

Now, assume that he did multiacount the tournament but with accounts "Moose" and "ILuvCards". And because his account names have nothing in common, and the software does nothing to limit you from registering from both.. you never know that it's the same person.

Now, think about what the person who is actively scamming the tournament and what they are doing? Well, they're going to do the two unrelated account thing and laugh all the way to the bank.

Do you now understand why I see no logical reason in why moose should lose his money? Why does Pokerroom get a free 9K due to their own shitty software?

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13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.

compuease

On a somewhat related topic, if one does use two accounts and play the same multitable tournament, what sort of an advantage does it really give you? I understand if you had both accounts at the same table but in a multi of any size that would seem to happen so rarely that it wouldn't really be much of a factor. Now I know why this would be an advantage at a cash game or in an SNG but not sure I understand it for the type of tournament we are talking about here.... Enlighten this old soul please..

I'll be back after I finish my 10 person SNG where I have 10 accounts playing... Maybe I'll finish in the money for once...

compuease

Great point, how about if we demand that Pokeroom run a 9K freeroll for pokerforum members?
Then we'll all go all-in against Moose and open fold..... wink, wink....

Hobbes

So just another Bristol for you Jeff?

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Hobbes
Playing micros is like getting a rectal exam from a leper who walks away with 9 fingers.

Monteroy

My assumption is that he did not try to cheat on purpose, but he did realize his error then continued to play. The intent as you keep focusing on is not the issue, it was the behavior after the mistake was realized that is, at least for me. If you drive 100 thinking the speed limit is 100 when it is 60 that is one thing. If you pass by a few signs that then say it is 60 and you keep going 100, then the fact you thought the speed limit was 100 at an earlier time is not an excuse.



Yes and no. On the crypto tables many people have become familiar with opponent's various user names, so that may not work as well as you think and anyway that is kind of beside the point. Just because smarter cheats can potentially get away with something compared with dumb cheats, does not mean that the dumb cheats should get a free pass on an issue.

Well, unless they get caught (usually by other players) in which case the cost will be considerable. That is generally the rule of thumb about violating rules and laws.

I tend to agree that given the circumstances that taking all of his balance is extreme, however I would think that they should take his winnings from both accounts in that tournament and move everyone up 1-2 spots and award them the difference.

I would agree that he should appeal to get whatever extra they may have confiscated by presenting the step by step breakdown of what happened in each of the tournaments he did this in.

actyper

When a cheater on a site such as FT or Stars is found, the confiscated $ is passed on to those that finished before him. Thats what PR should do, though it may be a bit more difficult since it was spread over x years of play there.

BBC Z

Can you please articulate what mooses advantage is? He pays twice the entry fee and pays twice the rake. He's never at the same table as his alter ego.

Ok, 99/100 times people have been caught multiaccounting it's because they bragged about it or someone ratted them out. Don't talk like you can just watch two nicknames play and guarentee they are the same person.

Christ, he's not a lifetime cheater. Have you met the guy?

Oh and another example why his balance shouldn't be confiscated: If he was trying to run a scam, he wouldn't leave 9K sitting in his balance.

See, you guys, LOVE applying the letter of the law all the fucking time and can never see the forest for the trees. Was it a violation? Ya probably, does he deserve the death penalty? C'mon.

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13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.

Monteroy

Note, I am not saying he did this, but what a player can do includes the following:

- Stall with one of his IDs at one of the tables every hand. I have had this happen in some of my Pokerstars tourneys and it is very frustrating as you end up playing 20-30 hands an hour instead of 60-70 which means that the amount of chips at the table will grow much more slowly as the tournament progresses (simply because people are getting knocked out at a slower rate).

- Just go wild with one account early on knowing he has a backup in case that one loses

- If it is some kind of multi tournament leader board promotion then use your extra account to target players that represent a threat to you on the leader board.

Is the advantage significant? Well, overall not a ton I guess. Is it zero? No.

Again, not suggesting he did any of this, just showing how multi accounting can be of some advantage.

You might be surprised how easy it is to figure out who is whom, especially on the smaller sites, and I am sure the sites can check as well if a player is reported whether it is the same person or not. Players do most of the policing in this way anyway.



I agree with you that losing an extra 9k is inappropriate given the context of the situation.

I do not agree that the "this is too dumb a crime, so why would anyone do it" is a valid defense. While perhaps true in this instance, it is a line of reasoning that could easily be exploited if it is excused.

GTA Poker

I think that the biggest shock in this whole thing is that people are surprised that this is an every day occurencein online poker...get real ya'll

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That level 5 trap really paid off...ship him the cookies.

Monteroy

Not sure where you get this from (or the point of it), as I am fairly sure all of us are aware that the world is not always honest (in all things). Online poker really is not much different, the vast majority of players are honest and a few are cheaters/criminals, and in some cases like this one it is more complex.

Some people who work in banks, super markets, charities etc. steal every day. Part of the human condition, but not really the issue at hand here.

actyper

So Pokerroom shouldn't confiscate his balance because they know moose personally and that he's a nice guy? Never called moose a cheater, his action was inappropriate though.

Imperium left several hundred thousands in his account. So did JJ Prodigy and his flock. I don't think you've kept up to date with all the bannings and confiscations that have happened this past month. 9k was nothing compared to what Stars took and redistributed.

Moose didn't get the death penalty, he got blocked from his accounts. Would a bank manager let a known bank robber into his bank? Child molester into a daycare? Honestly if this was some troll he made his first post in the same scenario, you would be all over him. And to clarify i'm not comparing moose to any of those people, he has only gained my respect for the way he dealt with it. Using his words he just had an idiotic moment.

Hobbes

So if accidentally steal a pack of gum and am found out, does that mean that my car can be seized.

In moose's case they took far more that the money that he won while multi-accounting.

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Hobbes
Playing micros is like getting a rectal exam from a leper who walks away with 9 fingers.

Monteroy

The pack of gum kind of trivializes this a bit, but the problem is that after he discovered the stolen gum, and realized it was stolen, he then opened it and started chewing away. I certainly think he should pay for the gum (have his tourney win amounts taken). If the rules say that his car gets taken that is quite harsh, but then don't chew the gum, just return it (ie: sit out one account).