Chuckieland

I just want to ask all you some guestion.....
I think i am average player,
home games, i win 80% of the time.
I often win at casino (3/6 games)
my cash game online is been good, but my problem is, one badbeat, my bankroll is bust.
online tournment, i have win some freerolls(1500 players), 8th on $20000 freeroll, won the aussie qualitifer (1500 Player), has got deep in most of the tournment i play.
yesturday, I went to a poker club in toronto, and got my ass hand it to me
it's so bad, that during the tournment or cash game, i didn't even win one hand......that's how bad it is.
funny thing is, some player there, i see as fishes......but i can't even win 1 hand..........
During Tournment, most of hand i dealt is not playable. 52,28,T3.
I try to fight the pot with hands like T9, 86, 69, but flop is all face card in a raising pot.......so i release then quickly.
try to bluff with preflop raising on weak hand, but reraising back to me, so i fold......
last hand, got AK suited. but got knock out by pocket 7 with a 7 on the flop.
Cash games 1/2 NL.
it didn't last long
I dealt A 10 suited. raise to $10
one caller, everybody folded.
flop A6A
bet $10 got called
turn 4
since he didn't reraise me, i figure he has weak ace, or 6 with high kicker.
i went allin
he has A4.....come on man.......
river is Q
so i need some advise, this has a big dent on my confidence regarding poker.
general rules, is eaiser to win at the casino or at the private poker club?

beanie42

No offense, but quite simply this is poor bankroll management. As has been previously discussed, you WILL run worse than you ever expected. I had a brutal run personally, losing multiple buy-ins repeatedly on bad beats. However, while I lost 1/2 my roll, because I was playing within it I was able to absorb these losses without going broke, and keep playing (and win it all back ). Search the forum, but as a quick-tip, if you're playing NL you should have a bankroll of at least 30 buy-ins. You should NEVER be in a position to lose everything on a single hand...

Good read, not the desired result. While you will win often with this, AT isn't that strong, and you'll oftern split (and he'll hit his 4 as well). Don't get upset that you don't win every hand - just make sure you get your money in good (and can afford to handle the swings as described above).

All depends on the players...

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)

pokerJAH

this is too weird; I was planning on posting a thread today entitled " I am the worst cash player ever!"; seriously, I also do fine in tournaments, but when it comes to cash games, I basically suck!! I have no problem admitting this as I really would like to improve this aspect of my game in 2007 and admitting you have a problem is the first step in improving. I don't really play a lot of cash games, but when I do, I find it hard to finish in the money. I would really like some good advice on improving your cash game and the difference in play vs a tournament.

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Vegas June 15 -19

AcidJoe

A cash game is a tournament with very deep stacks (that's how I'm starting to look at it).

I had been playing tons of SNG's and a few MTT's and doing quite well. I usually play limit poker (2/4 3/6). I decided to get back into the NL cash after a long time away. I was playing 50NL and got killed. I actually regrouped, re evaluated what hands I was playing from where and tightened up large.

I went and played lots of 0.05/0.1 NL and killed the game and built my confidence up. I played at Rama on Saturday (1/2 NL) and would have done better but I got stacked early from a guy who called my $15 pfr with 8 4 off. He flopped the straight I turned a set of A's. The rest is history. I actually put him on the flush draw since he played a lot of suited semi connected cards. He would usually call 1 raise with almost any 2. These kinds of guys are dangerous because he could hit the 5 2 2 rainbow board even after a raise.

Live is a different beast and most live players are there for fun (in a casino at least). In a club they tend to be better players since they have found the club. Learn bankroll management as Beanie mentioned. Drop down stakes till you have the required bankroll or slow down until you save up the BR.

Good luck.

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Kristy, why can't we all just get along?

BoyBlue

my only advise is when you play a cash game and you are a turnament player, "forget everything about turnamenst because cash games are a different state of mind". sure some swings are the same but you have to look at it differently. The chips you have now are actualy a cash value. My advice is to go play some 2/5 lmit live not online. i know limit stinks but i find that is the best way to learn and train you mind for a cash game and not always be in that turnament state of mind. But thats just my view

Hobbes

Just finished reading this book No Limit Texas Holdem by Angel Largay

Excellent book on LLNL. Really opened my eyes to the thought processed needed in LLNL cash games.

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Hobbes
Playing micros is like getting a rectal exam from a leper who walks away with 9 fingers.

pokerJAH

I will only play live as suggested; is trapping more important in cash games (i.e. do you play cards you would not normally play suited connectors, etc.) and then try to hit the flop and otherwise fold? I think bluffing is definitely out in cash games whereas it plays a huge part of my tournament play. The problem I find with cash games is you always get people who don't know when to fold and will call with about anything. This is great when you have a hand, but otherwise it can be very costly. Is 30xBB the general rule of thumb when you sit down at a NL cash game? Thanks for the feedback.

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Vegas June 15 -19

BoyBlue

the general rule for me is 50-100 times the BB. yes you will have people playing suited conectors and those people hit their cards and stack up. but play premium hands and dont be afraid to fold even if you have 1/3 of your ships in cause if your beat then your beat. you can buyin for 30x BB but i recommend 50 cause then you can waste a little money to see the persons cards and get a good read on em.

Chuckieland

thanks for the advise
i'll go back to the poker club tonight for another tournment and some cash game.
hopefully yesturday is just one of those day, nothing can go right for you......
i know i'm not the best, or consider myself a good player, but i think i can hold my own.
I can't even win a HAND yesturday, 2hr at tournment and 20 minute at cash games........ even if i got my ass kick again today, I just need to go back there. I couldn't even sleep yesturday....money is not the issue....but not even winning 1 hand......this is too much.

ScoobyD

It's called variance. You need to figure this out, because if you're used to winning "80% of home games", that probably isn't sustainable. You can't win EVERY session. Sometimes you will lose, sometimes you will lose a lot. It's all one BIG session. When you're getting cold cards, sometimes you have to focus more on the money your aren't losing than trying to "make something happen".

redstar

You should also consider your tells because there is so much more pressure when it's your own money and not tournament chips; especially when you're getting down in chips. Are your hands shaking at all? Are you making facial expressions that you are not aware of? If you are doing a semi-bluff are you tensing up? This is important too in sit-an-go cash games. Play the player not the cards all the time. Be somewhat aggressive...even with nothing and you should be able to haul in some more money if you are in a late position. Actually, try to look like you are bored! :-)

beanie42

I feel really bad about this post, since I have a lot of respect for most of the guys who have posted. However, I think this thread is presenting some really bad advice...

This varies and I don't normally find it to be true. Usually you have 1 or 2 deep stacks (who are either good or really lucky, sometimes both) and a bunch of medium stacks.

Actually, my cash game is generally looser than my tournament game, primarily because I can reload. Your goal in a cash game is to stack your opponent, and tight play is not usually going to get paid off the same way. You need to play hands which are not as obvious if you want to get their entire stack.

Do NOT think of the chips as having a real value. Very few people can play properly when they are constantly thinking about the actual value of what they are playing for. Think about making correct decisions, make sure you have an adequate bankroll win or lose, and count your winnings (or losses) away from the table.

Live is definitely a different game than live, but limit and NL are VERY different. If you want to learn NL cash games, try NL cash games. Learning at limit will not prepare you for NL, in my opinion.

Only bluff the bluffable players, whether it's cash games or tournies. Bluffing in cash games (and stealing blinds) is an important part of the game while you wait for your bigger hands. It helps to pay for your laps while waiting, but it also provides an opportunity to hit some flops accidentally (when your bluffs don't work) as well as giving a looser image.

This is exactly the kind of game you want, isn't it?

Sorry to be so critical everyone - I guess I have a much different perspective...

Yay - some advice I can agree with. Adequately bankroll yourself, then relax and "ride the wave"...

2 good posts in a row. Redstar's point about finding out your own tells is actually a really good one. This is actually hard to uncover on your own. I've found the best way is to ask a few trusted friends (who you believe will actually tell you) after playing some home games with them, or have a buddy come along to play with you. It's really tough to notice them yourself...

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"So many losses with such a small bankroll against such weak opponents - it's like being beaten by a mob of toddlers" - Me (while learning ring games)

cadillac

Well done Beanie. All good advise from you.

Cheers

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Stupid is as Stupid does - Forrest Gump

Chuckieland

thanks guys
i just came back from the club
i'm getting out play that is for sure, although yesturday is definitly bad lucky day, today i did so so.
Tournment today is crazy
alot loose aggressive player
starting 5000 chips
i have AQ, raise the blind from 25 to 100. someguy in the middle position raise to 1000......called. flop raged (269 i think). i check, next guy check, then allin. follow by another allin......can't call so if fold.
win the next hand i win 2000 chip.
The game itself is crazy, can't really see the flop without invest half of my stack.......it's a game with raise, reraise, and reraise........ definily got out play there.
cash games: somewhat better then yesturday.
except this hand that crapple me.....
i have AJ raise to 10. everybody fold except 1 caller.
flop A39, i bet 30, he call
turn 7 i bet 30 he call
river Q, I check since he call me twice, he is got to have something....
he bet 20. i call(pot odds)
he has QQ in the hole......can't really put him on that hand. i totally put him on the wrong him........
after that i have 12 bux left, getting cold cards for the next two round,
then allin 6bux with A9 but run into KK flop is 88766........
I evalute myself after getting my butt kick(this time, i will admit no bad luck invole) I come to conclusion that i play too "passive" i
'm usually aggressive player, but getting overwhelm by mass aggressive players. i think one of the main difference with home games, seeing the flop is cheap. At the club, alot of chips invest before seeing the flop. my poker skill is somewhat useless, as i can do more after seeming the flop. time to learn new stuff.......
few question i need to ask you guys.
1) after you invest 30-50% of you chips in, and flop goes no where, you are up against 2 or 3 loose aggressvie player that could raise and reraise with anything, do you fold or do you bet. I fold because i have no balls.
2)after number 1 ,regardless cold cards or hot cards, you just not hitting the flop, you just invest another 40-50% of your chips to see the worthless flop. there definely no free or cheap cards at the game. then what do you do....
until i figure this out, i don't think i gonna continue going to that club, i'm just not good enough to play there.
3)after alot of cold cards, when you get something good, you are not hitting the flop (even cold cards are not hitting), at this time, i start loosing my aggression, and start playing very passively, how do you deal with that. bluff is not gonna work, because after i fold, when there is chance to see the showdown result, somebody has the cards that will not fold.
4)i try to get in there face, after short on stack , then i become passive, even with passive image , i make a big preflop raise, i get no repect, i think it's because they think they can out play me after the flop. I have weak hand (69,89,76)and of course flop is all face cards.... i feel i definely try everything in my level, how can i improve to next level?

pkrfce9

for you, i'd recommend if you are willing to call with 30% of your stack pre-flop then you should just push all-in right then. and you shouldn't be doing that without a very strong hand or a good read that your opponents will fold. of course, it could also be that you are not buying in for enough.

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