one of those days......

Chuckieland · Dec 04,2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkrfce9

for you, i'd recommend if you are willing to call with 30% of your stack pre-flop then you should just push all-in right then. and you shouldn't be doing that without a very strong hand or a good read that your opponents will fold. of course, it could also be that you are not buying in for enough.

Thanks for the advise
i actually thought of that, but i just couldn't have the balls
pay the 60 dollar buy in, kinda want to play longer....maybe that's my problem.
everybody get 5000 chip to start with.
another thing, i tend to play more safe, that is....i often stay away from colin flip situation, unless i can take the lost. the best hand i got is AJ, the entire tournment....... not sure that is strong enough to push allin.

pkrfce9 · Dec 05,2006, 07:02 AM

i was referring to the cash game that followed and thought you were too?

Hobbes · Dec 05,2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckieland

thanks guys
4)i try to get in there face, after short on stack , then i become passive, even with passive image , i make a big preflop raise, i get no repect, i think it's because they think they can out play me after the flop. I have weak hand (69,89,76)and of course flop is all face cards.... i feel i definely try everything in my level, how can i improve to next level?

I think you are confusing passive with tight. I'll call a lot of preflop raises from a passive player cause I know that I can push him off the hand later.

Chuckieland · Dec 05,2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbes

I think you are confusing passive with tight. I'll call a lot of preflop raises from a passive player cause I know that I can push him off the hand later.

aren't passive almost the same as tight?

Big E · Dec 05,2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckieland

I just want to ask all you some guestion.....
1. my cash game online is been good, but my problem is, one badbeat, my bankroll is bust.

2. I dealt A 10 suited. raise to $10
one caller, everybody folded.
flop A6A
bet $10 got called
turn 4
since he didn't reraise me, i figure he has weak ace, or 6 with high kicker.
i went allin
he has A4.....come on man.......
river is Q

1. Beanie already mentioned this but if one bad beat eats up your bankroll you're playing outside your means, play at a level where you can manage the inevitable swings.

2. First of all AT is not that great but this comment really stood out for me:
since he didn't reraise me, i figure he has weak ace, or 6 with high kicker.
i went allin

So on an A-rag flop you put your opponent on A-rag and proceed to push? Ask yourself what you expect to happen when you push? A weaker hand will fold, a stronger hand will call, it's a no-win situation you could have avoided.

Quote:

1) after you invest 30-50% of you chips in, and flop goes no where, you are up against 2 or 3 loose aggressvie player that could raise and reraise with anything, do you fold or do you bet. I fold because i have no balls.

As with any hand it all depends, you need to consider more then just how much you have invested when deciding how to proceed with a hand (won't repeat it here but you can certainly search out the info)...and remember when your chips are in the middle, they are no longer your chips, don't get attached to them!!!!!

Quote:

2)after number 1 ,regardless cold cards or hot cards, you just not hitting the flop, you just invest another 40-50% of your chips to see the worthless flop. there definely no free or cheap cards at the game. then what do you do....

Remember most flops miss most people, you don't necessarily need to hit the flop to win a hand....that said it sounds like you need to work on post flop play and learn both how to read what your opponents have as well as figuring out what they think you have....were you the aggressor pre-flop then a flop of Q-6-3 comes down that misses you completely, a continuation bet may win the pot or get middle/small pairs out? Same situation but on a flop of Q-J-4 proceed with caution, this flop could give the other players a hand or a draw that will beat you...maybe this is too general but it sounds like you are just playing your cards?

I know when I started playing I was focused strictly on starting hands and position and I did ok but I was very weak post-flop...I didn't consider what people might call/raise with, I over-valued hands, I folded to a bet seeing monsters under the bed, I didn't maximize my draws (limit)...2 years later I think I'm much better but far from good...it was only through friends, reading, this community, reading, programs like Poker Tracker, and reading that allowed me to learn and analyze my game and improve...I hope you find the same success.

One last comment...it sounds like you're in a bit of a loose aggressive game....so I say tighten up

I agree with Beanie on everything but this....

Quote:

Actually, my cash game is generally looser than my tournament game, primarily because I can reload. Your goal in a cash game is to stack your opponent, and tight play is not usually going to get paid off the same way. You need to play hands which are not as obvious if you want to get their entire stack.

Although I can agree with Beanie's statement as a starting point you need to be able to switch gears during the game....you may start out looser but I think if you're in a game where the majority of players are loose and aggressive then you need to play the opposite of that and tighten up.

but I play mostly Limit so WTF do I know.

pokerJAH · Dec 05,2006, 09:36 AM

thanks for the advice guys and I don't mean to hijack the thread Chuckieland but I can relate a lot to the issues you are experiencing. I do find some nights I just don't get any cards (3/5, 7/4, etc.) all night and its hard to make any money when you raise with garbage in position, only to get re-raised or called and don't hit the flop. Then your faced with players that will call anything down to the river (which is typically a good thing and what you want) but it can cost you a big portion of your stack. Nothing is worse than when you raise a flop of 2JK, reraise the turn (A) and reraise the river (6) and get called down to the river by some guy with a 82 offsuit. I think when in this situation you really do need to have 30-50BB as your starting stack and you have to be willing to buy back in because in the long run, if you are playing against inexperienced players, it is only a matter of time before you have all their chips. It might take an additional investment, which might be hard if you are already down for the night and want to limit your loses to a certain amount before calling it quits. Personally, I don't think I have a lot of tells and eventhough my stack may be down, I remain calm and play accordingly. I really still believe bluffing in a cash game will cost you in the long run. Great advice so far.

Chuckieland · Dec 05,2006, 09:43 AM

Big E
thanks for your help, and yes, i guess i'm still at the level of playing my cards.
one of the question about tighten up during loose aggressive tournment..... i find.... it boring, plus antes are catching up, I read supersystem I & II, didn't want to become bloomcorn's uncle ^^
another thing, during headup, I know both side can miss the flop, but in a ring tournment game with raising pot, you would make a bet with flop Q-6-3? say 2-3 still in?
I have to learn more about reading other players, and get my balls up, and post flop play technique.
i'm usualy play the sytle of "when getting best hand, search for 2nd best hand, and take all his chips. and also avoid losing all my chips when i have the 2nd best hand", that works really well at home games, but at poker club where alot good players. i find my tools are not working anymore. i really have to learn more about post flop play.

pokerJAH · Dec 05,2006, 10:34 AM

sometimes it can be boring but patience is really important with any form of poker; I find my tournament game has improved because of being more patient. Sometimes you want to play more hands just for the sake of playing, which can cost you some chips. Playing in position is always good depending on the action in front of you. Westside has a deepstack tournament this weekend which I find are great for learning as you have a lot of chips to start with so if you make a couple of mistakes, you can always fight your way back.

AcidJoe · Dec 05,2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbes

Just finished reading this book No Limit Texas Holdem by Angel Largay

Excellent book on LLNL. Really opened my eyes to the thought processed needed in LLNL cash games.

Care to do a book review? I haven't gotten it yet hoping Santa will bring it.

Big E · Dec 06,2006, 02:38 PM

[QUOTE=Chuckieland;101091]Big E
thanks for your help, and yes, i guess i'm still at the level of playing my cards.
one of the question about tighten up during loose aggressive tournment..... i find.... it boring, plus antes are catching up, I read supersystem I & II, didn't want to become bloomcorn's uncle ^^
QUOTE]

You should pick up and read Harrington on Hold'em at least Vol 1 and 2. I think the set is the NL tournament bible. I agree playing tight can be boring and the blinds can eat you up so you obviously have to make moves to keep your chip stack healthy and this book covers that concept very well. I find playing mediocre/weak hands can get me in trouble so I play on the tighter side but if I notice the table really tighten up then I will start to play more hands or steal more, you have to be able to change your game to take advantage of the styles you're up against.

Quote:

another thing, during headup, I know both side can miss the flop, but in a ring tournment game with raising pot, you would make a bet with flop Q-6-3? say 2-3 still in?

It all depends

I won't get into why but read up on continuation bets! If you do the same thing all the time, that is raise pre-flop then check if the flop misses and fold to a bet, you're going to get steam rolled. You're giving way too much information out and good players will bet at you with anything and take you off a pot, you have to make it hard for the other players to read you and sometimes that is hard because we naturally want to do the same thing, we're repetitve creatures. Generally I think betting a flop that completely missed you more then 3 players in is not wise as the chance someone hit something is greater but with 1-3 people in you need to find out where you are, keep the lead and be aggressive they don't know the flop missed you and in cases where you all missed the flop the aggressor usually takes it down. If they fight back then you re-evaluate

Chuckieland · Dec 06,2006, 04:48 PM

Thanks Big E
I thinking to go back on monday to try it one more time, i don't have to win, but at least i have to feel i have a chance to win it, otherwise i am wasting my money.
I did notice one thing about the club,,,alot of player are willing to go allin on middle or top pair.....sometimes after the flop, both are allin with nothing but Ace with high kicker, where my rules is don't go broke with just one pair, unless it's headup... but since they are so aggressive preflop, every hand is like headup, the field is very limited to 2- 3 players playing.
my original plan is to trap them when i have good hand, but flop has it way to miss me, and i have no ball to get in further......
I jsut brought the book on Harrington Vol 1 and 2. i wondering if i should read them first before go back in there.......
Big E, are you in toronto? if so, maybe you should come with me, i hope you win, and you can give me some advise on how i improve myself ^^

Big E · Dec 06,2006, 08:19 PM

LOL, I'm in KW...and I'd likely be eaten alive at a club NL game

I'm a limit player, and not even a very good one

I have this very costly problem that my brain says fold and my mouth says call!

Harrington will help your NL tourney game for sure!!!

Chuckieland · Dec 06,2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big E

LOL, I'm in KW...and I'd likely be eaten alive at a club NL game

I'm a limit player, and not even a very good one

I have this very costly problem that my brain says fold and my mouth says call!

Harrington will help your NL tourney game for sure!!!

hahaha
i have exactly opposite problem
my brain say call, my mouth say fold.....when that happen, my card usually come, or has the best hand. but it's useless, since i folded.

pokerJAH · Dec 07,2006, 07:35 AM

what part of the city is the club? what type of game is it 1/2, 2/5? might be worth a visit. send me a PM if you prefer. Thanks.

Chuckieland · Dec 07,2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

what part of the city is the club? what type of game is it 1/2, 2/5? might be worth a visit. send me a PM if you prefer. Thanks.

downtown toronto
tournment is 60dollar buy in
cash game is 1/2 NL