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Apr 09,2007, 10:34 AM
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#1 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: scarborough
Posts: 724
| Preflop action
at 45 tourny, 20 people left
I have rough 3000 in chips
Blind is 100/200
action
UTG limp
UTG+1 Raise to 1000 (he had 2500 in chips, so that's raise is 40% of his stack)
UTG+2 Reraise to 2500 (UTG+1 and UGT+2 has been trading chips in a chicken fight way, he won a big pot off UTG+1 last hand) they like to raise and reraise each other, rest of the table just fold to them, no sense to be caught in this without a really big hand.
Don't really have a read on their hand strengh, as they have this personal duel against each other.
I didn't notice This
usually, small raise, small reraise, and small re-reraise....etc
This time UTG+1 push 40% of his stack (on tilt? just lost a big one to UTG+2)
UTG+2 put him all-in (that is not normal for him as well, but he could think UTG+1 is on tilt, and try to bully him)
then all Fold to me.
i have KK
I have UTG+1 cover
UTG+2 have both of us cover (Big stack on the table)
I am worry about two things.
1) AA
2) they could have an ace, and ace come on the flop.
would you push allin here with kk or just fold?
I push all in
UTG+1 JJ
UTG+2 AA
me KK
I got bust out.........
Next time, if i am in this situation, a big raise, follow by a big reraise. Does KK has good odds to put all your chips in? | 
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Apr 09,2007, 10:58 AM
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#2 | | Official pilot of CPF
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Hamburg
Posts: 7,400
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1. The second re-raise is almost always Aces.
2. Never be scared to get Kings into a pot vs. A-x.
3. Could you post the actual HH? Your phrasing is a little confusing.
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Apr 09,2007, 11:05 AM
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#3 | | CPF non-dirty whore
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada
Posts: 3,189
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckieland  I am worry about two things.
1) AA
2) they could have an ace, and ace come on the flop.
would you push allin here with kk or just fold? | You should only be worried about #1. #2 is just poker, when it happens just do your best to shake it off.
Whether I push all in or not would depend on my read of the raiser/reraiser. You noted that they have a duel between each other. And that the raiser just lost a pot to the reraiser. So it's tough to put the raiser on anything other than a tilt raise. However, if the reraiser usually only reraises a small amount, then his push should be ringing alarm bells in your head... which you did note, so that's a good start.
In the end though, I don't think I'm folding KK with 15BB and 20ppl left in the tourney. You're going to need to build a stack to make it deep. I play for the win and push.
To answer your question, does KK have good odds to push. It usually does, it's only behind AA, which is 1 in 221.
/g2
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Apr 09,2007, 11:07 AM
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#4 | | CPF non-dirty whore
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada
Posts: 3,189
| Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieH 1. The second re-raise is almost always Aces. | If I understood the post correctly, there was only a raise and 1 reraise... no second reraise.
/g2
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Apr 09,2007, 11:19 AM
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#5 | | Official pilot of CPF
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Hamburg
Posts: 7,400
| Quote:
Originally Posted by g2 If I understood the post correctly, there was only a raise and 1 reraise... no second reraise.
/g2 | Oh, limp, raise, re-raise. But still, you know there's a Monster there somewhere.
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KEEP THE SAME VENUE FOR THE ROYAL CUP!
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Apr 09,2007, 11:21 AM
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#6 | | CPF non-dirty whore
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada
Posts: 3,189
| Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieH Oh, limp, raise, re-raise. But still, you know there's a Monster there somewhere. | Yes, but if they've been duelling, you can't know it's AA and not AK/1010-KK.
/g2
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Apr 09,2007, 02:25 PM
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#7 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckieland would you push allin here with kk or just fold? | With the information you have given I would beat them both into the pot.
Both of their ranges are too wide. Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckieland Next time, if i am in this situation, a big raise, follow by a big reraise. Does KK has good odds to put all your chips in? | Situation Dependant.
Stack Size/opponent's image/your image/your m-value/his m-value etc etc.
The list goes on.
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Apr 09,2007, 02:27 PM
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#8 | | Full PFC Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46
| Quote:
Originally Posted by g2 If I understood the post correctly, there was only a raise and 1 reraise... no second reraise.
/g2 | It's considered a "3-bet" which although contrary to my earlier post, usuall DOES indicate Aces in a straightforward ABC type player.
Limp (1 bet)
Raise (2 bet)
Re-Raise (3bet)
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Apr 09,2007, 02:58 PM
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#9 | | CPF non-dirty whore
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada
Posts: 3,189
| Quote:
Originally Posted by James It's considered a "3-bet" which although contrary to my earlier post, usuall DOES indicate Aces in a straightforward ABC type player.
Limp (1 bet)
Raise (2 bet)
Re-Raise (3bet) | I believe the pseudo-rule is "the third raise is always aces". Keyword raise, not bet.
/g2
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