SB all-in for just over double the BB (which is you)

BigChrisEl · Mar 10,2006, 09:50 AM

I was playing at home game last night and the blinds were 150/300 with a 25 ante. There were 3 people left. The button folded. The SB (who is a tight solid player and who just folded his BB to a raise) goes all-in for a total of 675 making it an extra 375 to you. You have approx 2500 and are second in chips (with the chip leader having approx. 4500).

Is this an automatic call? If yes why? If no what hands would you have to have or what situation would you want to call with?

STR82ACE · Mar 10,2006, 09:54 AM

I wouldn't have changed a single thing you did!!!

esool · Mar 10,2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChrisEl

Is this an automatic call? If yes why?

Yes. You are getting almost 3-1 on your money for what is probably a coin flip or at least close to it. No matter what hand you can put him on you are probably not worse than a 3-1 dog..

westside8 · Mar 10,2006, 10:04 AM

With 1050 in the pot already and 375 to call, you are getting nearly 3-1, so its pretty much auto-call. While he could potentially have a monster, the chances are you will probably not be worse then 2-1 in this case.

Hork42 · Mar 10,2006, 10:11 AM

Agree with the call... his range of hands is any two. Also, the benefit of calling and busting him out outweighs the chance of giving him an extra 375 chips to his stack if you lose the hand.

beanie42 · Mar 10,2006, 10:24 AM

He probably has an above average hand (since he was willing to fold the BB), but I think it's still an auto-call.

STR82ACE · Mar 10,2006, 10:29 AM

CHRIS, DON'T LISTEN TO THESE GUYS!!! YOU PLAYED IT PERFECTLY!!!

Seriously, I was abit shocked when you didn't call here. I was pretty sure you would have, must have caught something of a tell, did you?

Hork42 · Mar 10,2006, 10:44 AM

Hmm... I'm starting to put 2+2 together... is "tight solid player" AJ? If so, BAD READ.

Flint Bones · Mar 10,2006, 10:49 AM

The only way I fold is if I have 2 3 off suit and the guy flashes his pocket pair at you.

Yes, I call here no matter what. I am guessing (since I am a genius) that you folded. Personally I wouldn't want to give the short stack so many chips (as compared to his stack) for free.

BBC Z · Mar 10,2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanie42

He probably has an above average hand (since he was willing to fold the BB), but I think it's still an auto-call.

It's far more likely that he folded his BB with complete junk and then realised how underchipped he is in the SB and pushed anything.

BigChrisEl · Mar 10,2006, 12:17 PM

OK what I am basically getting at here is what if you are pretty sure you are dominated (say j-2 vs. k-7 or J-2 vs. J-8) and the pot is giving you odds of 3-1 but you figure that your odds are 3-1. What other factors do you use here to make the call or is it automatic?

And Hork if it was STR82ACE I would have looked him up with 5-2 off.

pkrfce9 · Mar 10,2006, 12:21 PM

The other thing to consider is the increase in payouts when you put him out. That more than justifies calling here.

ScoobyD · Mar 10,2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

OK what I am basically getting at here is what if you are pretty sure you are dominated (say j-2 vs. k-7 or J-2 vs. J-8

Well for starters, K7 doesn't dominate J2. Â* And J8 vs J2 only makes you about a 2.5:1 dog. (It might actually be less since there will be more chops with the weakly dominated hands with low kickers).

If you're getting 3:1 there are only going to be 2 situations you don't really want to see:

Underpair vs. overpair (4.5:1 dog) (although if you have a PP I don't see how you're folding)

2 undercards vs. overpair (about a 5:1 dog)

So as Flint said, if you have 2-3o and "know" he has a pocket pair, that's about the only situation you wouldn't want to call...

Perry D. · Mar 10,2006, 12:39 PM

I don't think folding is a bad option here.
Unless you had a decent starting hand, let him get out with his 1000 or so chips.
If you call and he beats you now you are only 2000 to his 1400ish.
He is conservative AND he just folded big blind. Why would he play this hand when he sees many free ones to come.
In the free ones to come, he would potentially earn more from the blinds and any callers.
I'd let him off with this one and wait for a situation with higher odds.

BigChrisEl · Mar 10,2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyD

Well for starters, K7 doesn't dominate J2. Â* And J8 vs J2 only makes you about a 2.5:1 dog. (It might actually be less since there will be more chops with the weakly dominated hands with low kickers).

If you're getting 3:1 there are only going to be 2 situations you don't really want to see:

Underpair vs. overpair (4.5:1 dog) (although if you have a PP I don't see how you're folding)

2 undercards vs. overpair (about a 5:1 dog)

So as Flint said, if you have 2-3o and "know" he has a pocket pair, that's about the only situation you wouldn't want to call...

Looking at PokerStove

Â* Â* Â* Â* equity (%) Â* win (%) tie (%)
Hand Â*1: 67.5072 % Â* 57.17% 10.34% Â* Â* Â*{ Jc8s }
Hand Â*2: 32.4928 % Â* 22.16% 10.34% Â* Â* Â*{ Jd2h }

Â* Â* Â* equity (%) Â* win (%) tie (%)
Hand Â*1: 63.8354 % Â* 63.50% 00.33% Â* Â* Â*{ Kc7s }
Hand Â*2: 36.1646 % Â* 35.83% 00.33% Â* Â* Â*{ Jd2h }

375 to win 1050 is 35.7 % again about 3 to 1. Â*

Easy call?

If you call and miss you now have another player in the game with 1500 in chips and you with only 2000 (That's enough chips that he can make a move with). Where with the fold you still have a 2 to 1 chip lead over him leaving him with only 1000 compared to you 2500 which you can still muscle him with.

I know most people are saying calling but I honestly donâ€™t think it is such a simple decision, or maybe it is and Iâ€™m over analyzing it. (BTW these were the thoughts that were running through my head at the time)