Starting hands...is this playing to tight?

wayne · May 23,2006, 10:38 AM

I would like some opinions about starting hands, pre flop. I have been playing about 8 months and I want to know if I am playing to tight. The game I usually play is 5-10 limit. And the odd tournament. I have been loosing as of late so I want to eliminate some hands that I normally play. I am thinking of eliminating the follwing hands. All suited connectors ..like 56 D...or 23H...I will only play them if 9 10 or higher. Also I will only play face cards ONLY if one of them is an ace, unless suited. I will still play a small pocket pair to see the flop. This is a 5-10 limit game and always with a full table, 10 or 11 players. I would like some opinions on this. Thank you.

WaterLooser · May 23,2006, 10:59 AM

You mention nothing here about position! Position is so important, a little more so IMHO in no-limit than limit, but playing some of those hands from EP might not be a good idea. I also like to play low suited (or unsuited) connectors, but usually with position and I am happy to let them go unless they hit a great flop. However with position you can sometimes win a pot even when you hit nothing with a well timed bet or raise.

Scharf1 goes over this in his book - have you read it?

1 Sorry Dave if I spelled your name wrong, I can never seem to remember ...

ScottyZ · May 23,2006, 11:14 AM

I don't mind throwing away the small suited connectors, namely 23s, 34s, 45s, and maybe even 56s, in a loose-passive game. The trouble with the smallest connectors (besides simply containing low cards) is that they make fewer straights than the middle connectors.

Position also matters with the mid-range suited connectors. Even in a loose-passive game, you can be much more confident that you won't face a pre-flop raise, and that you will be getting enough action if you hit, in the later positions. I would often throw away 78s when UTG, on the button facing a raise, or on the button with only one limper in so far.

There is nothing wrong with throwing away unsuited face-card hands like KJo and QJo. Folding such hands pre-flop is even better if you think you may have trouble throwing away a top pair hand on later streets. I think that, of the unsuited high card hands (with no Ace), exactly KQo is worth playing most of the time, although it is a hand which hates facing a legitimate raise.

As for the very small pairs, I apply the same positional ideas as the mid-range suited connectors above, but I tend to loosen up slightly up front with pairs compared to the suited connectors. SSHE had a good explanation of why small pairs generally play a little better than the other "drawing hands" in LLHE. What I agree with most from the SSHE explanation is that low pairs flopping a set are more likely to get paid off more in the later streets than completed flushes and straights. Even below average LLHE players seem to be able sniff out the danger well and slow down when the board makes a straight or flush possible.

ScottyZ

Meistro · May 23,2006, 03:34 PM

Step 1 : Get SSHE
Step 2 : Read the preflop guidelines for loose games
Step 3 : Profit

wayne · May 23,2006, 04:28 PM

Hi, thanks for the responses...what is SSHE....a book? Is that the name of a book?

Soup · May 23,2006, 04:57 PM

small stakes hold em

Jay845 · May 24,2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meistro

Step 1 : Get SSHE
Step 2 : Read the preflop guidelines for loose games
Step 3 : Profit

I agree that SSHE is a good place to start for preflop hand selection, however the majority of your profit will come postflop. I find that most players are able to grasp preflop hand selection because they can use charts and it is fairly simple and straight forward. Postflop play is much more difficult to analyze and as a result many players delve no further than preflop. Postflop play is largely the focus of SSHE and is very applicable to most limit holdem games

TexLexus · May 28,2006, 07:12 AM

I agree. If you're playing 5-10 limit, SSHE is a great place to start. If you start to play NL, then you can be a little more creative when in position as it is much easier to steal pots with bigger bets.

CrazyJoe113 · May 30,2006, 11:50 AM

live or online? if live how loose is the game generally, how many people seeing the flop?

Meistro · May 30,2006, 03:07 PM

Jay : While I agree that postflop play is much more difficult than preflop play, and where the bulk of your money comes from, I disagree with your assessment that most, or even many, players have decent preflop play. It is a much deeper subject than you are giving it credit. To play preflop properly, not only do you have to know the relative strengths of all hands when it's folded to you unopened (the easy part), you also have to adjust your over limping, over raising, three betting and capping standards on the fly against your opponents. This is a very tricky thing to do and requires alot of attention and excellent hand reading.

But yes, post flop contains many, many more complex situations than preflop.