Last night in a live 1/2 game there were discussions from the "pros" at the table about different topics relating to poker hands and betting. Here is a question that I posed to one of the pros after this hand.
3 way action
Board is K79 6 8 rainbow.
There is betting on all three streets and on the river 2 players are heads up with effective stacks of 200. Now player 1 who is in MP checks, then player 2 bets into the pot who is in late position.
Player one calls and flips over a 10 for a straight. Now I asked him this question "why did you check call that river"
His response "well J10 could be beating me there.."
So my question is if you are playing a hand and you hit the draw/card that you need to give you the best possible holding for your two cards, so you always be afraid (i guess in this instance of the nuts)
I mean what would be the point of calling all the way down to the river with a naked 10 just to make your straight and then check call being afraid of a higher straight?? I mean is my logic flawed here?
He then went on to say "If I check raise and then get re-raised all in I have to fold because I assume he has J10..."
But then again based on the action on the flop/turn and river nothing suggests J10 here. What are people's thoughts on this kind of analysis....
Basically the question is "If you are playing a hand and you are looking to hit a certain card to complete your hand and you get it, is there any reason unless action totally dictates you are beat, not to maximize the value of your hand?"
I kind of understand where the other player is coming from; I think it comes down to the fact that experienced players have likely been burned before a lot of times with a counterfeited straight so they are afraid to re-raise in this situation because they are paranoid, based on previous experience in similar situations. They are likely the kind of player that will only risk all of their chips with the nuts and not the second nuts. Their hand is worth a call but not a raise. Inexperienced players will chase their flush/straight draws with a paired board, etc.
The other night I had a gut shot with a pair of sevens appearing on the flop. I had implied odds to call a small raise on the flop but because the board was already paired, I folded because chasing my straight was fruitless. Of course my card came on the river giving me the straight, but with so much action in the hand, a boat was very possible.
Location: Barrie..moving shortly outside of Goderich/Bayfield
Posts: 126
You said there was betting on all 3 streets...but i am kind of curious as to what that player had with his 10 to warrant calling or raising on the flop and turn. If he paired his other card with the 10 kicker, or if he was basically "chasing" the whole way. Had i been in that situation, depending on my read from the other player still in, i more than likely would have check/re-raised on that river. I am assuming the other player had Kx and was calling/raising the pot minimally. Specially after the turn card with the board straightening, if his raises were minimal then it also would have led me to believe he was holding Kx and my 10 was dominant and therefore the reraise on the river.
You said there was betting on all 3 streets...but i am kind of curious as to what that player had with his 10 to warrant calling or raising on the flop and turn. If he paired his other card with the 10 kicker, or if he was basically "chasing" the whole way. Had i been in that situation, depending on my read from the other player still in, i more than likely would have check/re-raised on that river. I am assuming the other player had Kx and was calling/raising the pot minimally. Specially after the turn card with the board straightening, if his raises were minimal then it also would have led me to believe he was holding Kx and my 10 was dominant and therefore the reraise on the river.
That was basically the reason why I was posing the question to him. All streets were bet with no real resistance, the player in this case turns a gutshot straight draw on the turn and then hits the river. Proceeds to check and gets the bet he wants and then just calls figuring the "nuts" may be out there but the betting doesn't suggest that at all from the previous streets.
It was also 1/2 so I wasn't surprised by this play
TJ would be double gutshot there (same odds as an open I believe) and would probably be betting out at the turn like mad. I would never have guessed TJ and might have gone broke but so be it.
and here is my shameless plug....it was at BIG EVIL POKER.....I suggest everyone come and try this game once...you won't be disappointed in the action!!!
Multiway pots with A high winning, j5, all ins for 500.00 with 47off, J10 suited....best game mid town right now for 1/2NL
Last edited by blackmagicz; May 14,2009 at 09:00 AM.
and here is my shameless plug....it was at BIG EVIL POKER.....
full table most of the night? I like the location but I find they hype the game too much for the amount of players that actually show up. I will probably give it another go during May.
full table most of the night? I like the location but I find they hype the game too much for the amount of players that actually show up. I will probably give it another go during May.
I only go on tuesdays at their new location but its a full table by 10 and a waiting list for most of the night. When I left there this tuesday after I shipped off my last 75 bucks with AK vs K7 on an K54 board (right away no delay turn 7) there were 3 people waiting for a seat.
I haven't been any other night as I am usually busy or there are other games I like to goto. BIG EVIL himself is a great host, always good for a few laughs with the stories.
This is so player dependant.....not only the villan but the hero aswell. If the hero is a maniac i would prefer to see a large river bet into the villan here maybe even an over bet. If the villan cant fold a set or even 2 pr here this is the perfect time. The problem with a check raise is that most of the time the river goes check check here if the villan has a hand, and judging from the action the villan has something. If you are quite certain that hes not on the nuts then i dont mind a check raise jam to possibly get him to fold a chop. But on this board the 10J turned a double gut, so there is now way i will get my stack in with a 10.
__________________
Don't always rely on the numbers.......Do always rely on the feel
[QUOTE=blackmagicz;187792]Last night in a live 1/2 game there were discussions from the "pros" at the table about different topics relating to poker hands and betting.
I think it would all depend on definition of "pro". If pro is someone making their living from the game then I am sure there could be tons of people playing 1/2. Making $100 at 1/2 per day should be relatively simple and is a good amount to live off of.
Location: Milton, poker capital of the world.. after Wloo that is.
Posts: 9,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham
I think it would all depend on definition of "pro". If pro is someone making their living from the game then I am sure there could be tons of people playing 1/2. Making $100 at 1/2 per day should be relatively simple and is a good amount to live off of if you are homeless and have no dependants and like imitation kraft dinner. Or maybe if your sole income is a certain Canadian poker forum
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