OPRC

With the WSOP main event coming up quick(July 3rd), i was wondering if anyone knows any good sites that are offering decent tournaments to win your way into the WSOP event. I have heard some offering $250+ ones, with usually 1 maybe 2 spots (depending on # of entrants) But, just wondering whats out there for this. Since the wife has a small problem with me forking over 10k plus travel to go. Figure i could get away with a few of these

philliivey

right now i believe full tilt is the best, since stars is running late this year, i would check out the big giveaway tourny's that will be held at last minute, full tilt 150 packages is in the lobby.

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Always did the right thing and it feels good.

OPRC

Thanks, i just finished reading their site for their promo's, and must say....holy hell!! they have alot of tourney's there for it. Not to mention the added little 10 million dollar bonus if ya happen to win the main event. LOL. Not sure which would be best route to go, the little cheapies to win your way thru 3-4 tournaments to win your way into the main event tourney, or just pay the 500 for the main event tourney and go for it from there. Tough decision.
Maybe try a few of the cheapies to see if i can make my way thru the 3-4 tournies and if i don't, then go for the $500 main event shot.
What do ya think?

BlondeFish

1) PartyPoker has the most guaranteed bonuses so far for its U$12K WSOP ME package:
- Free accommodation for at least 7 nights at Monte Carlo Resort from July 1-8, and longer while you are still in the tournament.
- U$200,000 leaderboard challenge, where every qualifier is guaranteed a cash win.
- Entry to the PartyPoker Suite.
- Invitation-only party.
- Free shuttle service from the resort to the WSOP.

Party also has a U$5,500 "Vegas Experience" package which consists of flight, limo transfer, accommodation and sightseeing for two plus only U$1,500 towards a WSOP buy-in. Since you are being charged U$4,000 for a vacation, this is a bad option for people who know how to shop for Vegas deals for much less than U$4K. If you have your heart set on playing a -EV WSOP preliminary event, then FTP's U$2,000-2,500 satellite packages are better.

2) Full Tilt Poker: total of U$10.5 million in bonuses if you qualify through them and make it to the final table. Assuming there will again be ~7000 Main Event players this year, this adds ~15% EV for each FTP qualifier. This offsets part of the 30% withholding tax.

3) Ultimate Cheat (Bet): U$11.6 million in final table bonuses, including U$10 million if you beat the super-users at UB then win the ME. This adds ~16.6% EV.

4) Everest Poker: Steps satellites for U$13K and U$3,500 packages. I think the rake is worse than PokerStars' Steps SNGs. Bonuses include the best VIP Experience, free airfare for a friend, and matching winnings up to $1 million then distributed equally.

5) PokerStars: they told me that their WSOP satellites and bonuses won't be announced until EPT Monte Carlo, but they need to do it much sooner as they will lose a lot of WSOP wanna-bes to other sites by then.

Please post if other sites have good WSOP incentives.

__________________
May your EV always be positive.

OPRC

Even though they take 30 - 36% withheld for taxes, you still get it all back once you get back to canada. You simply go to Customs and get the declaration form (don't forget to keep all documentation from the US proving they took the tax), submit it with the declaration form and in about 6-8 weeks, you will get that money back. (My dad has been with Customs for close to 40yrs) So if anyone needs more info on the process, just let me know.

ReefAquarium

I'd love to know how to get 100% of the tax back!

What forum do you get from customs?

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Not smarter than a grade 5 or Kristy Sea

OPRC

Gimme a day or 2, and i will post the exact document name and a link to the site(with some help from you guys for the link part), but i will fire off an email to my dad and get all the required information needed for submissions to the proper customs department for purposes of getting back the tax taken in the US.

philliivey

5 packages gtd in about 4 hours on full tilt, 1000 dollar buy in though, where is blondefish when you need him........

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Always did the right thing and it feels good.

BlondeFish

I'm willing to bet a satellite seat that your information is out-of-date. A friend was runner-up for a WSOP bracelet last year and he lost almost 30% of his hard-fought winnings to the IRS forever!

__________________
May your EV always be positive.

OPRC

Ok..got some info..and yes...i was a tad out of date LOL. Canada Customs and Revenue no longer does the tax thing for people anymore. They say because of too much hassles with the IRS. BUT, there is still hope. There is a company that does it for you now. This is the company my brother-in-law uses and recommends to all their clients. (they own a travel agency, and do alot of cruiseship packages that do the same thing, tax you before they pay your big winnings)
Refund Management Services
416-443-3360
He says they do all the paper work for you with the IRS, They only take a few % points, and it takes between 6 - 8 months for the entire process, but you do end up getting your taxes back (minus the few % points)
So basically it would just be a bonus down the road anyway. If ya think about it...say ya win a mill USD...they take 30% and give ya 700k USD..ya get back to canada, throw it in the bank...and with the exchange rate(minus the banks few cents on the dollar) @1.22 - 1.24...your sitting back up there to about 830k...then down the road...ya get back most of what ya originally paid in taxes (minus the services companys few % points) and your back up over the mill in winnings. Worth it in the long run i would think.

Mathers

Don't know how this keeps coming up over and over again. Canadians are taxed at 30% on most types of U.S. income, including Poker tournament winnings:

From IRS publication 515:
Withholding of Tax

Generally, a foreign person is subject to U.S. tax on its U.S. source income. Most types of U.S. source income received by a foreign person are subject to U.S. tax of 30%. A reduced rate, including exemption, may apply if there is a tax treaty between the foreign person's country of residence and the United States. The tax is generally withheld (NRA withholding) from the payment made to the foreign person.

The Canada-U.S. Income Tax treaty allows you to deduct losses/expenses from your winnings. That's it.

Protocol to the Canada U.S. Tax Treaty:
Prior to the Canada-U.S. tax treaty’s protocol,
Canadians were subject to 30% withholding on
certain gambling winnings and could not recover
this withheld tax. However, the treaty protocol
changed this by adding Article XXII(3) to the
treaty. This article states that, effective January
1,1996,
losses incurred on wagering
transactions of Canadian residents, the gains of
which would be subject to the 30% withholding
tax, shall be deductible to the same extent that
losses would be deductible if they were incurred
by a U.S. resident This article sounds very good to those
Canadians who have incurred large losses to
win that one big jackpot. However, it should be noted that in order to claim losses it is necessary
to substantiate the amount of all winnings (not
just the ones where 30% was withheld) and
losses incurred in a particular year.

Unless you incur $1,000,000 in losses in order to win your $1,000,000 in prize money, you are not getting your $300K back (or that proportion of which you cannot show losses for), legally, RMS or no RMS.

As a side note, curiously, these specific types of gambling income ONLY are not taxable for all foreign residents:

No tax is imposed on non-business gambling income a nonresident alien wins playing blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, or big-6 wheel in the United States.

Also, residents of certain countries (Canada is NOT one) are exempted by treaty from paying tax on ANY gambling winning in the U.S.

Gambling income of residents (as defined by treaty) of the following foreign countries is not taxable by the United States: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Russian Federation, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, and the United Kingdom.

That's right. Gus Hansen wins $1M, he keeps it all. You win $1M, Uncle Sam takes $300K.

OPRC

Thanks for that quote from the IRS publication, BUT...although it may be correct in some respects, in the end...Canadian residents CAN get back the money lost to IRS taxes with held. The reason most don't, is because they do not know the proper way in which to go about getting it. This is where the Refund Management Services steps in. After speaking at great lengths with my brother-in-law, he told me this......
He first tried to get it back himself, filing paperwork with the IRS but was refused because he filed the wrong forms with them and did not go through the procedure correctly. He then went to Refund Management Services. They in turn filed correct paperwork for him to get a SSN (Social Security Number) which he recieved, they then filed a US tax return for him (all of which had to be done in correct order and in proper procedure) As his winnings were with held in August, he had to wait till the following tax season to have it done(which is why the delay in getting the money back) RMS(refund management services) takes 25% of the return once the check is isssued from the IRS.
He got his return (minus the 25% fee from RMS) and so have many,many others that he has recommended to them who have been in the same situation. Its all about filing the PROPER paperwork, filled out CORRECTLY, and filed in the CORRECT manner, trying to do this yourself will more than likely fail, as the IRS will go over it with a fine tooth comb and even the smallest of errors will result in it being denied.
In the end, it IS possible to get the with held taxes back when done in the correct manner. Despite what the IRS publications and "treaty acts" tell you.

newguy31

Speaking of the WSOP in July...

I was just gonna ask if anybody has won their seat yet?

I've been trying to start small and make my way up.. but I don't know if I can pull it off...

Trying to satellite up is always a pain..

Mathers

It IS possible if you have losses to offset your winnings. It is NOT (legally) possible if you don't. IRS publications simply outline U.S. tax law.
It IS possible to do many things that are not legal. It IS possible you won't get caught. It IS possible you will go to jail if you do.

BlondeFish

No, as Mathers posted, you legally need provable losses to offset the withheld taxes. My friend did use RMS but since his only gambling losses were his WSOP tournament receipts, he lost almost U$100,000 in taxes permanently. Just as several forumers like me got victimized at Seneca Casino, he learned the hard way that it is much better to play in the WPT NAPC or other Canadian event instead of any US tournament.

__________________
May your EV always be positive.