thenewyear

I am planning to spend a weekend up at Casino Rama playing poker . Does anyone have experience playing there in their lower limit games? If so, plesae share some of your experiences.

Facecard99

They have really loose games in their 2-5 and 5-10 ^^
those are the limits i tried

magithighs

For some reason I can't win at Rama. Perahps I'm not that good. Well, I just can't accept that -- lol.

I think the toughest thing for me is that it's an 11 handed game, instead of a ten. From the Theory of Poker, the smaller the blinds the tighter you need to become. It goes against all intuition while you're in the game, because it's an extremely loose passive game (up to 5/10) and you have odds to call/raise in sooooo many spots.

But, I trully think tightness is required for the game. It'll be boring, but if you want profit, it might be the way to go. However, I'm not sure because I haven't been able to tighten down my game and/or win there. Hmmmm...., I think there's a correlation.

Some things to look out for. The conservative middle age woman bets into a field of 6 players -- at minimum she's got two pair. The asian who limped in, and raised the turn when the queen hit -- he's extremely likely to have AQ or QQ. Any turn raise, and you're likely looking at a minimum of a set -- two pair will call you down. Hey, it's alot like low limit play online -- only if you can believe it, more passive and looser (calling raises pre-flop).

Good Luck
Magi

BBC Z

Except that Theory of Poker wasn't written with Small Loose games in mind. Using it's strategy in those games is a money loser. SSH is the bible for these games.

Also,

What does intuition have to do with pot odds? If you have the odds to call/raise, theres no intuition involved.

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dl_brook

If by "intuition" you mean reading and assessing the players then you should find the 5-10 and 10-20 games at Rama rather remedial. The players there are often easily to read and although the action is loose and passive it still takes incredible patience and the ability to overcome frustration to succeed.

I agree that pot odds are often favourable in these games, which in turn makes the games loose so expect some fluctuations on the table.

Iron

I've played there several times. The 2/5 is a waaay loose game that I've done really well at, but it's been quite a while since I played that game. Basically, expect multi way pots that you can't chase people out of until the turn. Because of that you will sometimes have to dump big pairs when the flop isn't friendly and there are a lot of people in the pot betting/raising (don't give up too soon on them though). Hands that do well in multi way pots go up in value, nut flush draws and pocket pairs can do much better than at most games, because you can see the flop cheaply (not a lot of raising preflop usually), there are typically 4-6 limpers, and the big blind is a little smaller relative to the size of the big bet. You can win being a rote player and betting/raising for value only. No point in fancy plays here, no one is paying attention anyways. Not much point in bluffing much here either. You will virtually always have to showdown the best hand to win.

Only played their 5/10 a couple of times and there is still the occasional very poor player, but the play is at least reasonable, although it's still a beatable game. Maybe it's just the tables I was at, but I found the 5/10 slightly better than at Brantford, I'm guessing because the poorest players stick to 2/5. The 5/10 was still pretty loose though.

They can have big waiting lists so don't show up too late on weekends. Actually the few times I have played on Saturday afternoons, the games were much softer than the evenings.

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"The next best thing to gambling, and winning; is gambling, and losing."

magithighs

You may be thinking of Holdem for Advanced Players. TOP is a fundamental piece of work which applies to any game, scaramugi, old chigaco, holdem, stud, razz, you name it. IMO, it's a pretty awesome book.

Like I said, I can't beat the Rama game, so what do I know. Loose games, I can play with my eyes closed. I can beat just about any play money game. That was about four years ago when I first started. And, I beat the .5/1 tables.

When there's 11 players in the game, there are many players "giving" odds, so calling pre-flop with Q9s in late middle position a half decent call, with four callers in front. However, others are getting far better odds, especially post-flop. I think the problem is post-flop, hands like Q9s are very vulnerable. If I could get 600-700 hands in, then my slightly favourable odds on hands like Q9s have a shot at paying off.

Personally, I think the 11 handed game requires more patience and going in with very favourable odds. I'll have to try it some day.

Cheers
Magi

BBC Z

I dont understand why you think adding 1 player to a loose game changes anything. It probably only increases variance and increases the odds your drawing hands get.

Are you sure you understand loose games? You are paying 1 or 2 bets preflop with the possibility of taking in massive pots postflop. If I had to venture a blind guess, I'd say you are losing money because you don't follow the Omaha 'Fit or Fold' mantra. Raise that AK preflop, but be prepared to toss it away on a suited/connected flop.

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13Cards is the worst thing to happen to Canadian Poker ever.

BrentMoreau

it takes a different sort of game to excel at Bingo...ummm i mean rama 2/5 5/10! haha. i used to play their regularly and went back last week for the first time im a couple months, and it really is a game of odds. i admittedly play all sorts of crap, just like everyone else, and when it hits, it pays off. you have to know when to drop and pot odds are a huge part of that game as you're looking at minimum 5 ppl to a flop 95% of the time. also, its very easy there to figure out what types of hands ppl are playing, just pay attention and believe me not too many ppl at 2/5 change gears! lol (myself included) but probably the safest way is just standard tight-aggressive play. i cant play this way its just not my style! but my thing seems to be working for me, ive cashed out up between 100-200 my last 4 times there, although i promptly lose all that money online. g/l

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Dead Money

I have two words for the 2/5 at Rama -------Extreme Bingo

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Need somthing better to say!

magithighs

I'm pretty sure I understand loose games, pot odds and the fit/fold strategy. I love loose games, and show a decent profit -- ie. an 8BB/100 hands at 1/2 Party. So, I'm not blowing smoke.

I'm looking for rational reasons why my game suffers at Rama and Port Perry. I have a winning record, online and offline in so many different games and places. The only two I can't beat consitently are Rama and Perry. Ok I've only been to Rama three times and Port Perry once, so "consistently" may not be the best word. However, the only thing I can see that's different from Rama/Perry to the games I consistently beat, is Rama/Perry are 11 handed.

An extra person makes a huge difference. Think of the difference between 6 handed short tables and the 5 handed short tables. For me there's a huge differnce. I also had trouble going from a 10 handed game to 9 handed full ring table on stars (that's how they started). The one player made a big differnce for me.

It could also be that I suck. But I won't let that enter into the equation. If I can't beat a game, I just won't play it. And, it works for me, since Rama/Perry are both almost 2 hour drives!!

Cheers
Magi

SlantNGo

1/2 Party is a rock garden compared to 2/5 Rama. I struggle with extremely loose games as well, such at 0.5/1 and 1/2 on Pacific, that's like a B&M 2/5 game. Mainly I think it's just variance. At Pacific 1/2 I'd hit cold cards for 1000 hands, then in the next 50 hands, hit a few flushes, have KK hold up, and all of a sudden, I'm in the green.

Chugs

magi, can you explain what the big difference is between ten handed and eleven handed or even 9 handed for that matter. i've always understood changing my play requirements once short handed, but never thought of making adjustments between 11-10-9

ScoobyD

Couldn't variance be the big factor here? I remember making trips to Brantford playing the 2/5 table (which is very loose). I felt confident I was playing solid, and yet didn't show a profit until about my 4th or 5th session. I still feel confident in that I can beat this game long-run, but I'm also not overly shocked if I finish down in a single session.

ScottyZ

In addition to simply variance (a good explanation of short term results of course), how about high rake being a factor?

If the average Ontario 2/5 pot is $20, that's a $2 rake* on average, which works out to (all else being equal) 4BB/100 hands per player. Toke the dealer $1 per pot won, and you're looking at an effective rake more along the lines of 6BB/100 per player**. And $20 as an estimate for the average pot in play-em-all, chase-em-all holdem is on the conservative side, don't you think?

So the question really is, can your skill differential really make up in long run winnings the roughly 4 to 8 BB/100 per player that's falling off the table? Maybe, but if you're that good (and have a comfortable bankroll), you might consider moving up in limits.***

ScottyZ

*For those who don't know, the rake is $1 per $10 in the pot, up to a maximum of $5.

**For those players who do tip.

***Yes, I love footnotes.

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