Trips on a scary board

[-ev]

Recent live tourney. $60 buyin. 60 entrants. 12 remaining.

I'm one of the chip leaders at the table. Playing tight, somewhat aggressive. Blinds are 3k/6k. Avg stack is possibly 60k. I've got approx 90k. Table has been playing surprisingly tight - they want to make the final table I suppose. Lately it seems that any raise takes down the blinds.

I am dealt ATs UTG. I raise to 18k, expecting no callers as usual. The button pushes for 2k more and the BB calls with about 30k remaining, after verifying that I can't re-raise if he calls. These 2 have been pretty quiet at the table, playing a fairly conservative game. Pretty sure I'm behind here but I can't fold for 2k!

Flop comes QJT, rainbow giving me bottom pair, top kicker and a backdoor flush draw with a gutshot. BB checks, which I found surprising. Does anyone bet here? I checked behind.

Turn comes with another T, completing the rainbow. BB now pushes his remaining 30k. I figure I am behind a lot of hands that inexperienced players (or trappers?) might just call with PF - AK, QQ, JJ, QTs, JTs, 98s, K9s but I do have a few outs against some of these hands. I'm also ahead of a lot of hands that would have just called and pushed if they felt I was weak or behind - all other PPs, KQ, KJ, KTs, Txs, AQ, AJ, Axs.

I'm getting about 3 to 1 on my money. If I win, I am the chip leader (by 40-50% over 2nd) at the final table. If I lose, I'm down to about 6xBB. Do you call here?

[cadillac]

Originally Posted by -ev

Recent live tourney. $60 buyin. 60 entrants. 12 remaining.

I'm one of the chip leaders at the table. Playing tight, somewhat aggressive. Blinds are 3k/6k. Avg stack is possibly 60k. I've got approx 90k. Table has been playing surprisingly tight - they want to make the final table I suppose. Lately it seems that any raise takes down the blinds.

I am dealt ATs UTG. I raise to 18k, expecting no callers as usual. The button pushes for 2k more and the BB calls with about 30k remaining, after verifying that I can't re-raise if he calls. These 2 have been pretty quiet at the table, playing a fairly conservative game. Pretty sure I'm behind here but I can't fold for 2k!

Flop comes QJT, rainbow giving me bottom pair, top kicker and a backdoor flush draw with a gutshot. BB checks, which I found surprising. Does anyone bet here? I checked behind.

Turn comes with another T, completing the rainbow. BB now pushes his remaining 30k. I figure I am behind a lot of hands that inexperienced players (or trappers?) might just call with PF - AK, QQ, JJ, QTs, JTs, 98s, K9s but I do have a few outs against some of these hands. I'm also ahead of a lot of hands that would have just called and pushed if they felt I was weak or behind - all other PPs, KQ, KJ, KTs, Txs, AQ, AJ, Axs.

I'm getting about 3 to 1 on my money. If I win, I am the chip leader (by 40-50% over 2nd) at the final table. If I lose, I'm down to about 6xBB. Do you call here?

Think about it from his angle.

Your check behind on the flop on the drawy board is telling him you have nada or very little.

If you call you get shown hands that you beat lots. "all other PPs, KQ, KJ, KTs, Txs, AQ, AJ,"

I get it in here

[blackmagicz]

Easy fold. You missed your bet for information on the flop. There was 60K in the pot on the flop, throw out a 15K bet to see where you are at. At least then you extract information.

That leaves you with about 57K left which is more than enough to play at this level.

Figure for the SS to call you they need to have a somewhat premium hand, and for someone else to come in who is essentially committing half their stack is in their with a hand as well. I would be surprised if buddy called you with a PP and hit the board.

[ScoobyD]

Easy fold. You missed your bet for information on the flop. There was 60K in the pot on the flop, throw out a 15K bet to see where you are at. At least then you extract information.

What?!? What good is a 15K bet "for information" when you're pot committing yourself to call his push, and showing lesser hands that you have killed that you aren't folding? Betting for information here isn't useful at all.

As for the hand, the BB preflop call essentially pot committing himself is an odd one for sure, looks like an experienced player with either a mid pair, or may KQ, KJ, maybe even AQ.

I think the flop check behind is generally a good move here, but I can't see for the life of me how you're folding when the T hits the turn without a great read on the BB.

[STR82ACE]

Agree with Scoob on this one, if you're going to throw out 15000 then why not push him all in for the rest of his stack? His check on the flop doesn't tell you anything at this point, only his call preflop hints he might be onto something.

Push him all in on the turn, you still have outs if he hit his straight. And you're still in decent (avg) chip stack.

[blackmagicz]

Sorry, yeah I just realized the BB only has 30K left..so a 15K bet does nothing...

[HP_John]

I don't think anyone should bet that flop w/ that hand in that spot. You're esentially bluffing into a virtually dry side pot w/ 1 guy already all-in. On the flop, you're not beating much, & the BB has committed 40% of his stack preflop, if he got any part of that flop he's probably calling.

It still amazes me how guys bluff into dry side pots w/ another guy all-in, then they're surprised they have to show their hand to win the pot vs the guy already all-in, & find they lose the pot anyway since they were bluffing.

[STR82ACE]

Good point HP, and I missed it completely. Even if I have the nuts, chances are I'll check it down...unless I get bet into first. Which happens quite abit lately.

[-ev]

When called PF, I had to figure I was behind at least 1 of them and quite possibly both.

On the flop, with bottom pair on a well-coordinated board that very likely hit at least one of them or gave someone a strong draw, I did not want to essentially bluff at the dry side pot, especially since I felt he'd call any bet and most likely any more betting meant I would be putting another 30k into the pot before the end of the hand. We were also close to the end of the tourney and although the 'check it down against the all-in guy' wasn't quite in effect yet, it definitely went through my mind.

Caddy is right on the money though, that my check showed weakness and opened the door to SB. This definitely registered at the time but I had to consider what hands would he likely be showing down against the all-in person.

In the end, I concluded he would not have flat called PF with JJ+ or AK. In fact, I had a hard time deciding what kind of hand just flat calls then checks. Why would anyone check here? I concluded he was trapping on the flop with something like KQs, KTs or QJs, possibly JTs or K9s (brave call, sir!) so I was likely ahead. I called. You should have seen his face drop when I showed the T vs his 88.

I had completely misread his hand. Does anyone else play 88 this way on this hand?

[blackmagicz]

88 is all in or fold pre-flop....

[HP_John]

Wow, I'm shocked by the way he played 88 there. Brutal play, good for you though. It would've been so sick to fold & see his 88 there.